Discussion:
PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)
Add Reply
Paul Gilmartin
2018-10-06 19:37:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Never mind. Found them in the PMAR section of the SMDE.
Where do you find this? (cite?)

And, I'm curious. I have some empirical evidence that a timestamp for
PDSE members is kept with microsecond precision.
In: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.iead200/iead200374.htm
z/OS V2R2 MVS Data Areas Volume 2 (IAX - ISG)IEWPMAR Information
IEWPMAR mapping
I see:
66 (42) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_DATE Date saved
70 (46) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_TIME Time saved

Is this the source of that information? Where can I find its format?

Thanks,
gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Farley, Peter x23353
2018-10-06 20:43:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Yes, that manual is the source of my information. I have no idea where or even if the format of those PMAR fields is documented.

Neither of those two fields is listed in the first section on data area IEWPMAR as "NOT a programming interface" so we are supposedly allowed to access them, but that seems to be all the information there is.

The program object and load module SMDE's I have been looking at do not have those fields at all. They stop at byte 53 = X'35', field PMARL_NGAS. Perhaps only present for "data" PDSE's? The SMDE's I see have PMAR_LVL = X'05' (PO5 format) and PMAR_PLVL = X'03' (AOS-level bind processor)

This is on a z/OS V2.2 system..

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 3:37 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)

EXTERNAL EMAIL
Never mind. Found them in the PMAR section of the SMDE.
Where do you find this? (cite?)

And, I'm curious. I have some empirical evidence that a timestamp for PDSE members is kept with microsecond precision.
In: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.iead200/iead200374.htm
z/OS V2R2 MVS Data Areas Volume 2 (IAX - ISG)IEWPMAR Information IEWPMAR mapping I see:
66 (42) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_DATE Date saved
70 (46) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_TIME Time saved

Is this the source of that information? Where can I find its format?

Thanks,
gil
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Farley, Peter x23353
2018-10-06 22:19:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I was wrong about where the PMAR data ends. I misunderstood the structure of the PMAR sections. After further RTFM, I found that the ones I have been reviewing are for a PDS, so the format is the PMAR base section followed by the PMARR section, which adds up to 53 bytes of data.

The PMARL_DATE and TIME fields only appear in PDSE SMDE's (PMAR base followed by PMARL).

Peter

P.S. -- I didn't cite a different url for the manual entry since you provided the one I used. Also I mainly use the z/OS one-zip-file collection of PDF's rather than the web pages in KC (GA32-0936-03 z/OS V2R2 MVS Data Areas Volume 2 (IAX - ISG). IEWPMAR on pages 639-650).

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 4:43 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)

Yes, that manual is the source of my information. I have no idea where or even if the format of those PMAR fields is documented.

Neither of those two fields is listed in the first section on data area IEWPMAR as "NOT a programming interface" so we are supposedly allowed to access them, but that seems to be all the information there is.

The program object and load module SMDE's I have been looking at do not have those fields at all. They stop at byte 53 = X'35', field PMARL_NGAS. Perhaps only present for "data" PDSE's? The SMDE's I see have PMAR_LVL = X'05' (PO5 format) and PMAR_PLVL = X'03' (AOS-level bind processor)

This is on a z/OS V2.2 system..

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 3:37 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)
Never mind. Found them in the PMAR section of the SMDE.
Where do you find this? (cite?)

And, I'm curious. I have some empirical evidence that a timestamp for PDSE members is kept with microsecond precision.
In: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.iead200/iead200374.htm
z/OS V2R2 MVS Data Areas Volume 2 (IAX - ISG)IEWPMAR Information IEWPMAR mapping I see:
66 (42) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_DATE Date saved
70 (46) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_TIME Time saved

Is this the source of that information? Where can I find its format?

Thanks,
gil
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Farley, Peter x23353
2018-10-07 21:15:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
By inspection, knowing the link date and time of the PDSE-resident program object represented by an SMDE/PMAR/PMARL, The format of the PMARL_DATE and PMARL_TIME fields appear to be as follows:

PMARL_DATE: X'YYYYDDDF' Packed decimal, four digit year, 3 digit day-of-year and X'F sign nibble
PMARL_TIME: X'0HHMMDDF' Packed decimal, digit zero, 2-digit hour, 2-digit minute, 2-digit second and X'F' sign nibble

HTH

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 6:19 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)

I was wrong about where the PMAR data ends. I misunderstood the structure of the PMAR sections. After further RTFM, I found that the ones I have been reviewing are for a PDS, so the format is the PMAR base section followed by the PMARR section, which adds up to 53 bytes of data.

The PMARL_DATE and TIME fields only appear in PDSE SMDE's (PMAR base followed by PMARL).

Peter

P.S. -- I didn't cite a different url for the manual entry since you provided the one I used. Also I mainly use the z/OS one-zip-file collection of PDF's rather than the web pages in KC (GA32-0936-03 z/OS V2R2 MVS Data Areas Volume 2 (IAX - ISG). IEWPMAR on pages 639-650).

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 4:43 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)

Yes, that manual is the source of my information. I have no idea where or even if the format of those PMAR fields is documented.

Neither of those two fields is listed in the first section on data area IEWPMAR as "NOT a programming interface" so we are supposedly allowed to access them, but that seems to be all the information there is.

The program object and load module SMDE's I have been looking at do not have those fields at all. They stop at byte 53 = X'35', field PMARL_NGAS. Perhaps only present for "data" PDSE's? The SMDE's I see have PMAR_LVL = X'05' (PO5 format) and PMAR_PLVL = X'03' (AOS-level bind processor)

This is on a z/OS V2.2 system..

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 3:37 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)
Never mind. Found them in the PMAR section of the SMDE.
Where do you find this? (cite?)

And, I'm curious. I have some empirical evidence that a timestamp for PDSE members is kept with microsecond precision.
In: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.iead200/iead200374.htm
z/OS V2R2 MVS Data Areas Volume 2 (IAX - ISG)IEWPMAR Information IEWPMAR mapping I see:
66 (42) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_DATE Date saved
70 (46) BITSTRING 4 PMARL_TIME Time saved

Is this the source of that information? Where can I find its format?

Thanks,
gil
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-10-07 22:21:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
PMARL_DATE: X'YYYYDDDF' Packed decimal, four digit year, 3 digit day-of-year and X'F sign nibble
PMARL_TIME: X'0HHMMDDF' Packed decimal, digit zero, 2-digit hour, 2-digit minute, 2-digit second and X'F' sign nibble
Thanks. Using NFS client on Solaris, I see fraction of second granularity, so it must be
something else. NFS Ref. mentions FAMS (File Access Management Services), with no
hint of an API.

Interesting. If I HMigrate then recall a PDSE, the timestamps shown by NFS are
unchanged. If I IEBCOPY unload then reload, those timestamps show the time of
the reload. Bug, WAD, or both?

Thanks again,
gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Farley, Peter x23353
2018-10-08 03:44:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
AFAICT, FAMS appears to be covered by NDA. ISV products like PDSFAST seem to be empowered to use it for PDS(E) copying and advertise it in their SYPRINT messages, so I assume the vendors can get necessary API information from IBM for some price, just not we ordinary users.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 6:21 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
PMARL_DATE: X'YYYYDDDF' Packed decimal, four digit year, 3 digit day-of-year and X'F sign nibble
PMARL_TIME: X'0HHMMDDF' Packed decimal, digit zero, 2-digit hour, 2-digit minute, 2-digit second and X'F' sign nibble
Thanks. Using NFS client on Solaris, I see fraction of second granularity, so it must be
something else. NFS Ref. mentions FAMS (File Access Management Services), with no
hint of an API.

Interesting. If I HMigrate then recall a PDSE, the timestamps shown by NFS are
unchanged. If I IEBCOPY unload then reload, those timestamps show the time of
the reload. Bug, WAD, or both?

Thanks again,
gil
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Farley, Peter x23353
2018-10-11 03:55:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Paul,

I forgot to answer you last question. I suspect the answer is WAD. The comments in the Data Areas manual for those two fields say "Date loaded" and "Time loaded", so when you reload the PDSE via IEBCOPY reload then it is newly loaded. At least, that's the excuse I would use. HRECALL probably doesn't use IEBCOPY under the covers (more likely some track-by-track or cylinder-by-cylinder I/O copy operation).

HTH

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 6:21 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PMAR (was: Where in SMDE ...)
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
PMARL_DATE: X'YYYYDDDF' Packed decimal, four digit year, 3 digit day-of-year and X'F sign nibble
PMARL_TIME: X'0HHMMDDF' Packed decimal, digit zero, 2-digit hour, 2-digit minute, 2-digit second and X'F' sign nibble
Thanks. Using NFS client on Solaris, I see fraction of second granularity, so it must be
something else. NFS Ref. mentions FAMS (File Access Management Services), with no
hint of an API.

Interesting. If I HMigrate then recall a PDSE, the timestamps shown by NFS are
unchanged. If I IEBCOPY unload then reload, those timestamps show the time of
the reload. Bug, WAD, or both?

Thanks again,
gil
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Peter Relson
2018-10-08 11:56:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
PMARL_DATE: X'YYYYDDDF' Packed decimal, four digit year, 3 digit
day-of-year and X'F sign nibble
PMARL_TIME: X'0HHMMDDF' Packed decimal, digit zero, 2-digit hour,
2-digit minute, 2-digit second and X'F' sign nibble
</snip>

Whatever proves to be the correct answer (What Peter F posted seems likely
to be correct, but I'm checking) will be placed into the commentary of the
field and will make its way into the data area books in a forthcoming
release.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-10-11 04:25:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
I forgot to answer you last question. I suspect the answer is WAD. The comments in the Data Areas manual for those two fields say "Date loaded" and "Time loaded", so when you reload the PDSE via IEBCOPY reload then it is newly loaded. At least, that's the excuse I would use. HRECALL probably doesn't use IEBCOPY under the covers (more likely some track-by-track or cylinder-by-cylinder I/O copy operation).
Thanks.

Hmmm... Can one HRECALL to a different device type? Is there a different
device type nowadays? Perhaps EAV<->non-EAV?

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Loading...