PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.

[john gilmore]

Why not PROP instead?



The publication is now and for long has been called just PRinciples of OPeration.



PROP has the merits that 1) it contains no otiose [or misplaced] 's' and 2) it is not reminiscent of nursery scatology in English.



Someone may well be able to think of a better replacement, but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful.


John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA



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[Ted MacNEIL]

>Why not PROP instead?

It has been called POPS at least since 1976, when I took my first assembler course.

Why change a name everybody understands?

IBM has done that over the years and confused everybody.
Look at the recent posts regarding z, i, p, x, z (etc.) Series.

-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Don Williams]

It's was already referred to as POPS when I started in 1968.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:51 PM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
>
> >Why not PROP instead?
>
> It has been called POPS at least since 1976, when I took my first
> assembler course.
>
> Why change a name everybody understands?
>
> IBM has done that over the years and confused everybody.
> Look at the recent posts regarding z, i, p, x, z (etc.) Series.
>
> -
> I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
> Kimota!
>
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[Thomas H Puddicombe]

Principles Of Operation: POO

Principles Of OPeration: POOP


Tom Puddicombe
Mainframe Performance & Capacity Planning
CSC

71 Deerfield Rd, Meriden, CT 06450
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From:
john gilmore <***@MSN.COM>
To:
IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Date:
07/22/2010 11:54 AM
Subject:
PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.



Why not PROP instead?



The publication is now and for long has been called just PRinciples of
OPeration.



PROP has the merits that 1) it contains no otiose [or misplaced] 's' and
2) it is not reminiscent of nursery scatology in English.



Someone may well be able to think of a better replacement, but one
standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful.


John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA



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[Bonno, Tuco]

>>>>Why change a name everybody understands?
>>>>I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
>>>>>Kimota!

Indeed, but then, when all else fails, re-name, re-organize:

" We trained hard, but it seemed every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation. "

-Gaius Petronus, Roman general, AD 66
in _Satyricon_ , by Petronius Arbiter


/s/ tuco bonno;
Graduate, College of Conflict Management;
University of SouthEast Asia;
"I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !! "




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[osman cinar eren]

Hi,

In a COBOL program(environment. z/OS V1R9), we try to use timeout in socket connection. So we set the socket into nonblocking mode and we call the select function with our socket descriptor in write set. Our socket descriptor value is 0 so we set the maxsoc value to 1 in the select call. We receive the following errorcode: 10332.
Its explanation is:
A SELECT call is invoked with a MAXSOC value greater than that which was returned in the INITAPI function (MAXSNO field).

I am really confused with this error code.
So does anyone have any comments on this?

Thanks & Best Regards.





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[Elardus Engelbrecht]

john gilmore wrote:

>Why not PROP instead?

You are a good PROPonent to PROPerly PROPose a good name change! ;-D

>but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be
useful.

What standards? There are a lot of gripes on this very list about the big blue's
products name changes...

From ADSM to TSM
RACF to Security Server
MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS
etc... (can't remember now what ... )

Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

***@SITA.CO.ZA (Elardus Engelbrecht) writes:
> From ADSM to TSM
> RACF to Security Server
> MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS
> etc... (can't remember now what ... )

ADSM goes back to CMSBACK I did in the late 70s ... was distributed
internally ... it was finally released as workstation datasave facility
... with client front-ends that included support for backing up files to
the server backend.

It then became ADSM ... along with the disk division getting renamed
ADSTAR and looked like ADSTAR would be spun off (new management reversed
that decision). When disk division was finally unloaded, ADSM was kept
... but moved into another organization and renamed TSM.

Following lists the original/first "release" as Workstation DataSave
Facility (WDSF40 for VM) September 9, 1990:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Tivoli_Storage_Manager

recent cmsback/adsm/tsm thread in linkedin group
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#18
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#19
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#22

... for other drift, PROP ... long ago & far away, stood for "Programmable
OPerator" (later PRogrammed OPerator)

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-07-22 20:56, Elardus Engelbrecht pisze:
> john gilmore wrote:
>
>> Why not PROP instead?
>
> You are a good PROPonent to PROPerly PROPose a good name change! ;-D
>
>> but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be
> useful.
>
> What standards? There are a lot of gripes on this very list about the big blue's
> products name changes...
>
>> From ADSM to TSM
> RACF to Security Server
> MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS
> etc... (can't remember now what ... )
>
> Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D

Oh yes! Ten years after I AGAIN have CICS 4.1
Ooops! It's CICS TS 4.1, not CICS 4.1
What is CICS TS? Mayb some add-on tool like CICS IA, or CICS TG? <vbg>

Of cours it's still better than PROCESSOR. Almost nobody can properly
distinguish CEC and CPC - that's OK. But people used to say PROCESSOR
for CEC, sometime they say "this processor has 4 processors".
Maybe this is the reason why some non-mainframe co-workers name it
"CocaCola vending machine". Size and colour are similar. <g>


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
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ul. Senatorska 18
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Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy
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[Ken Porowski]

But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?

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[Rick Fochtman]

--------------------------------<snip>---------------------------------------
But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?
----------------------------------<unsnip>-------------------------------------
:-) Hasn't been "green" in over thirty years! :-)

Latest version is white and it's a 70-page "booklet". Sorry to
disappoint you. (Not really! :-) )

Rick

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[Hunkeler Peter , KIUP 4]

>--------------------------------<snip>-------------------------------
>But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?
>----------------------------------<unsnip>---------------------------
>:-) Hasn't been "green" in over thirty years! :-)
>
>Latest version is white and it's a 70-page "booklet". Sorry to
>disappoint you. (Not really! :-) )

Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the
way he/she likes it most..

--
Peter Hunkeler
Credit Suisse

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[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

***@CREDIT-SUISSE.COM (Hunkeler Peter , KIUP 4) writes:
> Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the
> way he/she likes it most..

i've done a q&d conversion of the old (internal) greencard ios3270 file
to html.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html

i've tried to approximate the background of old fanfold greencard color
... currently i'm using #80c080 ... but it lacks the feel. i may have to
resort to scanning an old greencard ... and snipping large blank section
as background .... a little like background for Col John Boyd related
info (aka I had sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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[- Tibish Mathew]

Hi,
Can someone please get my email-ID out of this mailing list ?


________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Fri 7/23/2010 5:53 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.



***@CREDIT-SUISSE.COM (Hunkeler Peter , KIUP 4) writes:
> Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the
> way he/she likes it most..

i've done a q&d conversion of the old (internal) greencard ios3270 file
to html.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html

i've tried to approximate the background of old fanfold greencard color
... currently i'm using #80c080 ... but it lacks the feel. i may have to
resort to scanning an old greencard ... and snipping large blank section
as background .... a little like background for Col John Boyd related
info (aka I had sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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[McKown, John]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of - Tibish Mathew
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:27 AM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
>
> Hi,
> Can someone please get my email-ID out of this mailing list ?
<snip>
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Can not people read? Every message gives a web site at the bottom for this sort of thing. What is wrong with today's youth?

--
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Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

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[shmuel+ (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.)]

In <***@blr-m3-msg.wipro.com>, on
07/23/2010
at 05:57 PM, - Tibish Mathew <***@WIPRO.COM> said:

> Can someone please get my email-ID out of this mailing list ?

Yes.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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[Howard Brazee]

>--------------------------------<snip>---------------------------------------
>But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?
>----------------------------------<unsnip>-------------------------------------
>:-) Hasn't been "green" in over thirty years! :-)

Mine's still green.

[Don Williams]

Since before my hair was grey.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ken Porowski
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:04 PM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
>
> But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Don Williams]

PCP -> MFT -> MVT -> MVS... IBM sales was changing the name even when it was
"free" (i.e., bundled with the hardware). I guess you just can't keep a
salesman from "improving" a name.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:56 PM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
>
> john gilmore wrote:
>
> >Why not PROP instead?
>
> You are a good PROPonent to PROPerly PROPose a good name change! ;-D
>
> >but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly
> be
> useful.
>
> What standards? There are a lot of gripes on this very list about the
> big blue's
> products name changes...
>
> From ADSM to TSM
> RACF to Security Server
> MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS
> etc... (can't remember now what ... )
>
> Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

***@GMAIL.COM (Don Williams) writes:
> PCP -> MFT -> MVT -> MVS... IBM sales was changing the name even when it was

pcp, mft/mft-ii, & mvt were all sysgen options for os/360 (as opposed to
dos/360)

for 370 virtual memory there was DOS->DOS/VS; MFT->OS/VS1 and
MVT->OS/VS2 (and cp67->vm37).

initial OS/VS2 Release 1 was "SVS" ... basically MVT laid out in
(single) 16mbyte virtual address space; with a little bit of logic to
handle the virtual memory tables (paging, page faults) and initially
CCWTRANS (borrowed from CP67) cobbled into EXCP to handle channel
program translation (aka make a copy of the channel program,
substituting real addresses for the virtual addresses).

things then got a little confused with Future System effort interrupting
370 activity ... recent reference discussing some of the issues
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm

OS/VS2 Release 2 was "MVS" and suppose to be just a temporary stepping
stone to OS/VS2 Release 3 ... the "Future System" operating system.

aka FS was going to completely replace 370 ... as different from 360/370
as 360 had been different from prior generations. Since FS was going to
completely replace 370 ... the 370 product (hardware & software)
pipelines were allowed to go dry. When FS was finally killed, there was
then mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines ...
like the 303x stuff ... recent reference to 3031 being 158, 3032 being
168, and 3033 was 168 wiring spec using faster chips
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#35 TSSO - Hardcoded Offsets - Etc

misc. past posts mentioning future system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

In parallel with the mad rush to get stuff pack into 370 product
pipelines ... there were efforts to start work on compatible followon
generations to 370. The high-end 370 compatible followon eventually was
referred to as "811", for the nov78 date of the XA architecture
documents. The low & mid-range did the (different followon) "E"
architecture.

The "E" architecture begate VSE ... and the "XA" architecture begate
MVS/XA.

i've mentioned before that the POK favorite son operating system managed
to convince corporate that it was necessary to kill the vm370 product,
shutdown the vm370 development group (in burlington mall) and transfer
all the people to POK (or otherwise they would miss their FCS
schedule). Endicott managed to save the 370 product mission but
essentially had to reconstitute a development group from scratch.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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[Ted MacNEIL]

>Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D

CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS.

DB2 is UDB!

-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Don Williams]

Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs
tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was
not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks
won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS,
runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
>
> >Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D
>
> CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS.
>
> DB2 is UDB!
>
> -
> I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
> Kimota!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Donald Johnson]

Why use four syllables when one will do - that's effieciency!

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Don Williams <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs
> tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was
> not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks
> won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS,
> runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM
> > To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
> >
> > >Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D
> >
> > CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS.
> >
> > DB2 is UDB!
> >
> > -
> > I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
> > Kimota!
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to ***@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
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[zMan]

It's always appeared to me to be:
Americans: see-eye-see-ess
Others: kicks

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Don Williams <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs
> tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was
> not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks
> won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS,
> runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM
> > To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
> >
> > >Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D
> >
> > CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS.
> >
> > DB2 is UDB!
> >
> > -
> > I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
> > Kimota!
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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[Don Williams]

This American has been calling it kicks for over 30 years.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of zMan
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:53 AM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
>
> It's always appeared to me to be:
> Americans: see-eye-see-ess
> Others: kicks
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Don Williams <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others
> sysprogs
> > tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I
> was
> > not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and
> kicks
> > won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like
> CICS,
> > runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM
> > > To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> > > Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
> > >
> > > >Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D
> > >
> > > CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS.
> > >
> > > DB2 is UDB!
> > >
> > > -
> > > I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
> > > Kimota!
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > send email to ***@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN
> INFO
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> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
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[Howard Brazee]

On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, ***@GMAIL.COM (zMan) wrote:

>It's always appeared to me to be:
>Americans: see-eye-see-ess
>Others: kicks

My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in
California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including
trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside.

[Charles Mills]

It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the
east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to
the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and "doss." With the greater
geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference
may have disappeared.

It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but
no one says zoss.

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Howard Brazee
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, ***@GMAIL.COM (zMan) wrote:

>It's always appeared to me to be:
>Americans: see-eye-see-ess
>Others: kicks

My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in
California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including
trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside.

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[zMan]

Actually I do know folks who say "zohss". It grates on me.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Charles Mills <***@mcn.org> wrote:

> It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the
> east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to
> the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and "doss." With the greater
> geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference
> may have disappeared.
>
> It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam
> but
> no one says zoss.
>
> Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of Howard Brazee
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
>
> On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, ***@GMAIL.COM (zMan) wrote:
>
> >It's always appeared to me to be:
> >Americans: see-eye-see-ess
> >Others: kicks
>
> My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in
> California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including
> trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to ***@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
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>



--
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[Rich Smrcina]

Agreed.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:42 PM, zMan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually I do know folks who say "zohss". It grates on me.
>
> --
Rich Smrcina
Velocity Software, Inc.

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[Kelman, Tom]

Charles, that's interesting. I worked in shops in the Southeast,
specifically Atlanta, for almost 30 years and there is was always kicks.
It's when I moved to the Midwest in 2005 that I got into a shop where
they said see-eye-see-ess, and the first time I used the term kicks they
didn't know what I was talking about.

Tom Kelman
Capacity Planning
Commerce Bank, Kansas City

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:34 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on
the
east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved
to
the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and "doss." With the
greater
geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that
difference
may have disappeared.

It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam
but
no one says zoss.

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf
Of Howard Brazee
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, ***@GMAIL.COM (zMan) wrote:

>It's always appeared to me to be:
>Americans: see-eye-see-ess
>Others: kicks

My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in
California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including
trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside.

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[Burrell, C. Todd , CDC/OCOO/ITSO, CTR]

When I first started at one job they talked about things called def-ism
and id-mmms. It took me awhile to figure out they were talking about
DFHSM and IDMS. And I also have heard someone use zoss instead of ZOS.


Of course this is the same shop that had RACF setup with single
character passwords with no password history or password age set, and
they had most of their SYS1. Dataset profiles setup as WARN only. They
tried to run me off when I put in a password length and password history
(what was I thinking? - to actually use the security system for
SECURITY).

Needless to say I left quickly.

C. Todd Burrell
PMP, MCSE 2003:Security
Security+, Network+
Lead z/OS Systems Programmer
ITSO
[phone] (Cell)


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Kelman, Tom
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:13 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

Charles, that's interesting. I worked in shops in the Southeast,
specifically Atlanta, for almost 30 years and there is was always kicks.
It's when I moved to the Midwest in 2005 that I got into a shop where
they said see-eye-see-ess, and the first time I used the term kicks they
didn't know what I was talking about.

Tom Kelman
Capacity Planning
Commerce Bank, Kansas City

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:34 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on
the
east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved
to
the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and "doss." With the
greater
geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that
difference
may have disappeared.

It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam
but
no one says zoss.

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf
Of Howard Brazee
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, ***@GMAIL.COM (zMan) wrote:

>It's always appeared to me to be:
>Americans: see-eye-see-ess
>Others: kicks

My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in
California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including
trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside.

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************************************************************************
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[Tony Harminc]

On 23 July 2010 13:33, Charles Mills <***@mcn.org> wrote:

> It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss.

I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of
Americans and "rest of the world" people, where either standard
pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste
some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation.

Who's to blame for "zee" - is that another Noah Websterism?

Tony H.

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[Greg Shirey]

Last "kicks" conference I went to, the Brits all said "zed-oh-ess".

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:23 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu


I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of
Americans and "rest of the world" people, where either standard
pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste
some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation.

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[Ward, Mike S]

I always say zoss, and I used to say eeesa for ESA.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:23 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

On 23 July 2010 13:33, Charles Mills <***@mcn.org> wrote:

> It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and
vee-sam but no one says zoss.

I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of
Americans and "rest of the world" people, where either standard
pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste
some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation.

Who's to blame for "zee" - is that another Noah Websterism?

Tony H.

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==========================
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[Bob Woodside]

On Friday 23 July 2010 11:52, zMan wrote:
> It's always appeared to me to be:
> Americans: see-eye-see-ess
> Others: kicks

I think you might occasionally hear "cheeks" in Italy. :-)

Among Americans, I think it depends on how much contact the staff of a
particular shop have with European users of Cumbersome Initials
Connoting Something. In particular those who've had contact with the
CICS development team at Hursley Park seem most likely to adopt - and
spread - the UK pronunciation.

Most of the people I've worked with over the past 30 years in the
Northeast have said "kicks", but that's been in IBM or in an ISV with
strong UK ties. I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But
as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy
regionalization within the US.


Cheers,
Bob

--
Bob Woodside
Woodsway Consulting, Inc.
http://www.woodsway.com

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[Tony Harminc]

On 23 July 2010 23:07, Bob Woodside <***@woodsway.com> wrote:
the UK  pronunciation.
> I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But
> as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy
> regionalization within the US.

There's also the not-yet-mentioned "see-ah-see-ess"... The
monophthongal "eye" prevalent in the US South. (Where "South" is a
concept more than a geography, of course, e.g. most of Florida not
being in "the South".)

Tony H.

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[Ward, Mike S]

I have also heard it called sissy.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:08 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

On 23 July 2010 23:07, Bob Woodside <***@woodsway.com> wrote:
the UK  pronunciation.
> I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But
> as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy
> regionalization within the US.

There's also the not-yet-mentioned "see-ah-see-ess"... The
monophthongal "eye" prevalent in the US South. (Where "South" is a
concept more than a geography, of course, e.g. most of Florida not
being in "the South".)

Tony H.

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[Joel C. Ewing]

On 07/23/2010 10:07 PM, Bob Woodside wrote:
> On Friday 23 July 2010 11:52, zMan wrote:
>> It's always appeared to me to be:
>> Americans: see-eye-see-ess
>> Others: kicks
>
> I think you might occasionally hear "cheeks" in Italy. :-)
>
> Among Americans, I think it depends on how much contact the staff of a
> particular shop have with European users of Cumbersome Initials
> Connoting Something. In particular those who've had contact with the
> CICS development team at Hursley Park seem most likely to adopt - and
> spread - the UK pronunciation.
>
> Most of the people I've worked with over the past 30 years in the
> Northeast have said "kicks", but that's been in IBM or in an ISV with
> strong UK ties. I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But
> as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy
> regionalization within the US.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
> --
> Bob Woodside
> Woodsway Consulting, Inc.
> http://www.woodsway.com

I think you are absolutely right that it is based on your contacts and
not just region. When we first started looking at CICS in late 1970's
we went to CICS class (probably Dallas or Houston) where we were taught
"see-eye-see-ess". We exclusively used that convention for years until
our Tech-CICS types began frequenting the CICS sessions at SHARE and
later working directly with IBM Hursley. At that point they adopted the
"kicks" convention, while some of us at our installation that don't work
with CICS on a daily basis still prefer the initials. No doubt the
frequency with which you have to say CICS in the course of a day is an
influencing factor.


--
Joel C. Ewing, Fort Smith, AR ***@acm.org

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[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

>CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS.
>DB2 is UDB!

Ok. Ok. Ok. I give up in this name change game! ;-D
Next time, you're going break my brain... ;-[

zPS: zI zliked zyour zpost zin zthe zthread 'zEnterprise' ;-Z

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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[Ted MacNEIL]

>zI zliked zyour zpost zin zthe zthread 'zEnterprise'

As a Sci-Fi geek I've been making jokes about Enterprise in IBM product names since ESA was announced.

I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like:

Red alert! Red alert!
8 Terabyte core dump!
Can you fix it Bones?
Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor!
Not a systems programmer.

Six to swap in, Mr Scott.
Start I/O!


-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Jim Phoenix]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:
> I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like:
>
> Six to swap in, Mr Scott.
> Start I/O!
>
Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel???

--
| Jim Phoenix | Voice: [phone] x316 |
| Senior Software Developer | Fax: [phone] |
| Phoenix Software International | |
| 831 Parkview Drive North | ***@phoenixsoftware.com |
| El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com |

Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company.

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[Don Williams]

Not in 1988.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Jim Phoenix
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:27 AM
> To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
>
> Ted MacNEIL wrote:
> > I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like:
> >
> > Six to swap in, Mr Scott.
> > Start I/O!
> >
> Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel???
>
> --
> | Jim Phoenix | Voice: [phone] x316 |
> | Senior Software Developer | Fax: [phone] |
> | Phoenix Software International | |
> | 831 Parkview Drive North | ***@phoenixsoftware.com |
> | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com |
>
> Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the
> Company.
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[Jim Phoenix]

Don Williams wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Jim Phoenix
>>
>> Ted MacNEIL wrote:
>>
>>> I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like:
>>>
>>> Six to swap in, Mr Scott.
>>> Start I/O!
>> houldn't that have been Start Subchannel???
>>
> Not in 1988.
You mean to say that MVS/XA hadn't taken over the world by then?!?!?
=-O Oh! The horror of it all! :-D
I do feel sorry though for all the VSE shops that didn't get that
functionality till much later.
--
| Jim Phoenix | Voice: [phone] x316 |
| Senior Software Developer | Fax: [phone] |
| Phoenix Software International | |
| 831 Parkview Drive North | ***@phoenixsoftware.com |
| El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com |

Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the
Company.



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[Eric Mendelson]

P
------Original Message------
From: Ken Porowski
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Sent: Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM

But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?

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Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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[Ted MacNEIL]

>Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel???

This errant pedantry up with I shall not put!

(8-{]}

It was a joke.

-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Bob Woodside]

On Friday 23 July 2010 01:18, Ted MacNEIL wrote:
> >Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel???
>
> This errant pedantry up with I shall not put!

s/errant/arrant/

But I think we could suspend this rule in the case of a knight
arrant. :-)


Cheers,
Bob

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[Jim Phoenix]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:
>> Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel???
>>
>
> This errant pedantry up with I shall not put!
>
> (8-{]}
>
> It was a joke.
And a good one too! Sorry I forgot the smiley on my prior reply. I was
just trying to rib ya a little bit! :-)
--
| Jim Phoenix | Voice: [phone] x316 |
| Senior Software Developer | Fax: [phone] |
| Phoenix Software International | |
| 831 Parkview Drive North | ***@phoenixsoftware.com |
| El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com |

Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the
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[Riedel, Alexander]

But IBM i missing to deliver a set of coloured pencils with this booklet. Maybe we could open a request by IBM for this

Alexander Riedel

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:29 AM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.

>--------------------------------<snip>-------------------------------
>But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?
>----------------------------------<unsnip>---------------------------
>:-) Hasn't been "green" in over thirty years! :-)
>
>Latest version is white and it's a 70-page "booklet". Sorry to
>disappoint you. (Not really! :-) )

Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the way he/she likes it most..

--
Peter Hunkeler
Credit Suisse

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[Thompson, Steve]

------Original Message------
From: Ken Porowski
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Sent: Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM

But it's still a "Green Card" isn't it?

<SNIPPAGE>

Aren't Green Cards purple now?

<zShields up>

Later,
Steve Thompson

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[Howard Brazee]

On 23 Jul 2010 08:25:57 -0700, ***@STERCOMM.COM (Thompson,
Steve) wrote:

><SNIPPAGE>
>
>Aren't Green Cards purple now?
>
><zShields up>

Green blackberries are red.

[bbreynolds]

On Jul 23, 12:27 pm, Howard Brazee <***@cusys.edu> wrote:
> On 23 Jul 2010 08:25:57 -0700, ***@STERCOMM.COM (Thompson,
>
> Steve) wrote:
> ><SNIPPAGE>
>
> >Aren't Green Cards purple now?
>
> ><zShields up>
>
> Green blackberries are red.

And some cultivars of black raspberries are yellow.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Warminster PA

[Mohammad Khan]

Now there is another twist to that - someone is writing a CICS clone for
MVS3.8 and has named it KICKS :) It's already running some simple CICS
COBOL applications.

Mohammad


On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:46 -0400, Don Williams <***@GMAIL.COM>
wrote:

>Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs
>tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was
>not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks
>won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS,
>runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.
>

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[Kelman, Tom]

I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on
Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator that will run on Linux, various version of
UNIX, Windows, or Mac OS.

http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/KICKS/
http://www.hercules-390.org/


Tom Kelman
Capacity Planning
Commerce Bank, Kansas City


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Mohammad Khan
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:08 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

Now there is another twist to that - someone is writing a CICS clone for

MVS3.8 and has named it KICKS :) It's already running some simple CICS
COBOL applications.

Mohammad


On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:46 -0400, Don Williams <***@GMAIL.COM>
wrote:

>Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs
>tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I
was
>not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and
kicks
>won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like
CICS,
>runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.
>

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[Gerhard Postpischil]

On 7/23/2010 4:48 PM, Kelman, Tom wrote:
> I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on
> Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator that will run on Linux, various version of
> UNIX, Windows, or Mac OS.

Hercules is a hardware emulator (S/370 to fairly current). The
OS is distinct. The KICKS facility mentioned currently runs on
MVS 3.8j as a TSO application, and would probably run on modern
systems.

Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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[zMan]

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Kelman, Tom <***@commercebank.com
> wrote:

> I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on
> Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator that will run on Linux, various version of
> UNIX, Windows, or Mac OS.
>
> http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/KICKS/<http://home.gci.net/%7Emike-noel/KICKS/>
> http://www.hercules-390.org/
>

Mmm, no, that's not what we're talking about. The see-eye-see-ess vs. kicks
pronunciation wars predate Hercules the emulator by a wide margin; heck,
they may predate Hercules the demigod! (OK, maybe not so much...)

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[Bill Fairchild]

Another way to pronounce the acronym as a single word is that often used by native Italians who have learned English as a second language. They, by default, will pronounce CICS as "cheeks", or perhaps "chicks". When I worked for Landmark Systems Corp., the original developer of TMON/CICS, I remember once sitting at a sidewalk café on the Via Veneta in Rome with a Landmark colleague, sipping on a whiskey, and joking with him about how we were monitoring "chicks" and their various subsystems as they strolled by.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:45 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

The see-eye-see-ess vs. kicks pronunciation wars...
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[Peter Nuttall]

Reminds me of a conversation I had regarding the words used to make people
smile when having their photograph taken. In the UK, we say "Cheese",
however, in Spain they say potatoes ("Patatas"), and in France they say
"Fromage" ... ? .. :-)





"Bill Fairchild" <***@MAINSTAR.COM>
Sent by: "IBM Mainframe Discussion List" <IBM-***@bama.ua.edu>
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Please respond to
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Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)








Another way to pronounce the acronym as a single word is that often used
by native Italians who have learned English as a second language. They,
by default, will pronounce CICS as "cheeks", or perhaps "chicks". When I
worked for Landmark Systems Corp., the original developer of TMON/CICS, I
remember once sitting at a sidewalk café on the Via Veneta in Rome with a
Landmark colleague, sipping on a whiskey, and joking with him about how we
were monitoring "chicks" and their various subsystems as they strolled by.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of zMan
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:45 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

The see-eye-see-ess vs. kicks pronunciation wars...
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[shmuel+ (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.)]

In <***@wkpp1infmb03.cbsh.com>,
on 07/23/2010
at 03:48 PM, "Kelman, Tom" <***@COMMERCEBANK.COM> said:

>I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on
>Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator

No, Hercules is not "an MVS/zOS emulator"; it is a simulator of a
S/360 descended machine. If you want to run MVS on your machine then
you still need a copy of MVS to run under Hercules.

You may be thinking of one of the turnkey CD's, which contain complete
pregenerated operating systems, but those are not Hercules, even if
the Hercules project provides them.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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[Ted MacNEIL]

>Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs
tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks.

I believe only the US spells it (C-I-C-S), all other countries pronounce it (kicks).
-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Ted MacNEIL]

>You mean to say that MVS/XA hadn't taken over the world by then?

In 1988, I had just left an organisation that was still oon 1.3.4(ish).
It was one of the reasons I left.
The new (to me) organisation was on 2.1.7, about to go to 2.2.0.
Back then, you were supposed to jump from 2.2-something to ESA.
2.1-something was not supported (so we were told).
But, later it was.

-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Ted MacNEIL]

>Last "kicks" conference I went to, the Brits all said "zed-oh-ess".

We Canadians do, as well.
There is only one country that pronounces it zee.

And, I've heard many Americans call it zee-oss.

-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[Ted MacNEIL]

> Last "kicks" conference I went to, the Brits all said "zed-oh-ess".

Canadians do for the most part, too.
-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!

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[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-07-24 07:15, Ted MacNEIL pisze:
>> Last "kicks" conference I went to, the Brits all said "zed-oh-ess".
>
> Canadians do for the most part, too.

In Poland we say KICKS and zed-oh-ess.
I think in Europe people use KICKS.


BTW: KICKS in polish is jargon name for futball shot that horribly
misses the target (or squint).

BTW2: We have no problem to pronounce Szczebrzeszyn or Chrzczonowice,
but we very hardly distinguish differences in 'bitch', 'beach' and
'beech'. Or 'witch' and 'which'. That sometimes leads to funny stories.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy
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[Bob Woodside]

On Saturday 24 July 2010 09:40, R.S. wrote:

> BTW: KICKS in polish is jargon name for futball shot that horribly
> misses the target (or squint).

Well, I have heard a couple of criticisms of CICS that weren't too far
removed. Not from me, mind you.

> BTW2: We have no problem to pronounce Szczebrzeszyn or Chrzczonowice,
> but we very hardly distinguish differences in 'bitch', 'beach' and
> 'beech'. Or 'witch' and 'which'. That sometimes leads to funny
> stories.

I'm trying to imagine a Monty Python style sketch involving a pair of
Indo-European specialists, one English and the other Polish, debating
the philological significance of the famous, um, "bitch line" running
from Kalingrad (or Królewiec, if you prefer) to Odessa. (And yes, my
hovercraft is full of eels.)

Cheers,
Bob

--
Bob Woodside
Woodsway Consulting, Inc.
http://www.woodsway.com

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[Bill Fairchild]

Bob,

You left out the other "in" syllable in "Kaliningrad". The easiest way to remember how to spell it correctly is to use either of the two words for it in the native languages of people that have ruled it - Калининград or Königsberg. :-)

The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and the German name means King's Mountain.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Woodside
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:00 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)

... the famous, um, "bitch line" running from Kalingrad (or Królewiec, if you prefer) to Odessa. (And yes, my hovercraft is full of eels.)

Bob Woodside
Woodsway Consulting, Inc.
http://www.woodsway.com
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[R.S.]

Bill Fairchild pisze:
> Bob,
>
> You left out the other "in" syllable in "Kaliningrad". The easiest way to remember how to spell it correctly is to use either of the two words for it in the native languages of people that have ruled it - Калининград or Königsberg. :-)
>
> The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and the German name means King's Mountain.

Just to complement this off-topic thread: Kaliningrad can be translated
as City of Kalinin. Kalinin was Russian communist, Stalin's co-worker.
Polish name was Królewiec or Królówgród, which is PARTIALLY similar to
Koenigsberg (Król = Koenig = King) (Gród=town/city=Burg <> Berg). So
German equivalent name should be (but it's NOT) KoeningsBURG.

BTW: Immanuel Kant lived there.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy
XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego,
nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237
NIP: 526-021-50-88
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone.

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[Peter Nuttall]

My German might be a bit rusty, but isn't Burg - Castle and Berg -
Mountain ?





"R.S." <***@BREMULTIBANK.COM.PL>
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Re: CICS -> KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)








Bill Fairchild pisze:
> Bob,
>
> You left out the other "in" syllable in "Kaliningrad". The easiest way
to remember how to spell it correctly is to use either of the two words
for it in the native languages of people that have ruled it - Калининград
or Königsberg. :-)
>
> The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and
the German name means King's Mountain.

Just to complement this off-topic thread: Kaliningrad can be translated
as City of Kalinin. Kalinin was Russian communist, Stalin's co-worker.
Polish name was Królewiec or Królówgród, which is PARTIALLY similar to
Koenigsberg (Król = Koenig = King) (Gród=town/city=Burg <> Berg). So
German equivalent name should be (but it's NOT) KoeningsBURG.

BTW: Immanuel Kant lived there.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


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[Bob Woodside]

On Monday 26 July 2010 11:28, Peter Nuttall wrote:
> My German might be a bit rusty, but isn't Burg - Castle and Berg -
> Mountain ?


Ganz richtig.


Cheers,
Bob

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[Bob Woodside]

On Monday 26 July 2010 11:23, R.S. wrote:
> Bill Fairchild pisze:
> >
> > The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad,
> > and the German name means King's Mountain.
>
> Just to complement this off-topic thread:

OT, yes, but entertaining.

> Kaliningrad can be
> translated as City of Kalinin. Kalinin was Russian communist,
> Stalin's co-worker. Polish name was Królewiec or Królówgród, which is
> PARTIALLY similar to Koenigsberg (Król = Koenig = King)
> (Gród=town/city=Burg <> Berg). So German equivalent name should be
> (but it's NOT) KoeningsBURG.

Actually, I believe the German name was a translation of the Latin name,
Regiomontium.


> BTW: Immanuel Kant lived there.

And he most likely called it Königsberg. Which leads me to wonder what
was the etymology of the town's name in Old Prussian (which died out
shortly before Kant's time). I find mention of 2 names, Twānkstathe and
Kunnegsgarbs. The latter I take to be a variant of the King's Thing
names, but I've no clue about the former.

Of course, my knowledge of Baltic languages is even scarcer than my
knowledge of Polish (non-existent) and Russian (nearly so).


Cheers,
Bob

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[Bob Woodside]

On Monday 26 July 2010 10:17, Bill Fairchild wrote:
> Bob,
>
> You left out the other "in" syllable in "Kaliningrad".

Finger check in the banana problem algorithm.

I probably should have just written "Königsberg".


Cheers,
Bob

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[osman cinar eren]

hi, i want to send my question below again. Can someone that has experience on socket programming help me? By the way there is a connect call before the select call in the scenario i told below. Thanks in advance.

On Thu Jul 22nd, 2010 8:09 PM EEST osman cinar eren wrote:

>Hi,
>
>In a COBOL program(environment. z/OS V1R9), we try to use timeout in socket connection. So we set the socket into nonblocking mode and we call the select function with our socket descriptor in write set. Our socket descriptor value is 0 so we set the maxsoc value to 1 in the select call. We receive the following errorcode: 10332.
>Its explanation is:
>A SELECT call is invoked with a MAXSOC value greater than that which was returned in the INITAPI function (MAXSNO field).
>
>I am really confused with this error code.
>So does anyone have any comments on this?
>
>Thanks & Best Regards.
>
>
>
>





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[shmuel+ (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.)]

In <SNT113-***@phx.gbl>, on 07/22/2010
at 03:53 PM, john gilmore <***@MSN.COM> said:

>Why not PROP instead?

Tradition, and there's more than one.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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[shmuel+ (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.)]

In
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIH+nruO4exAufAxNTnNpHSCxBIAEAAAAPsObMmNBc5IoKOFRqUVa9YBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>,
on 07/23/2010
at 12:00 PM, Don Williams <***@GMAIL.COM> said:

>Not in 1988.

MVS/XA was available well before 1988.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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[Bill Fairchild]

I was testing software on MVS/XA in mid-1983. I think it was first available in 1Q 83.

Bill Fairchild

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:55 PM
To: IBM-***@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.

MVS/XA was available well before 1988.
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