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ZZSA question
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Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
2018-10-05 11:58:32 UTC
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Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?

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Seymour J Metz
2018-10-05 14:58:34 UTC
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And does anybody know whether it supports the HMC 3270 interface?


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Subject: ZZSA question

Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?

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Tom Brennan
2018-10-05 15:07:48 UTC
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I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems. That
was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
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Tom Brennan
2018-10-05 15:13:54 UTC
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Oh... you mean HMC console. New answer: I did not try that, but prior
to going to that site I had never user ZZSA before so I tested it under
Hercules, and that simulates the HMC console I believe, so I'd bet the
answer is yes.
I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems.  That
was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the
CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
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Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
2018-10-05 15:21:06 UTC
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I've tested ZZSA under Hercules - Thanks to Sam Golob's fine work - but I didn't see how to define a console as an HMC integretated console (hmcs) ?

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Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer – RavenTek Solution Partners




-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 10:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question

Oh... you mean HMC console. New answer: I did not try that, but prior to going to that site I had never user ZZSA before so I tested it under Hercules, and that simulates the HMC console I believe, so I'd bet the answer is yes.
I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems.  That
was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the
CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
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Tom Brennan
2018-10-05 15:52:45 UTC
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I just tested ZZSA under Hercules and like I thought, when you connect
via Hercules TN3270 to simulate a console, after IPL no ZZSA messages
appear until you press Enter. That means ZZSA sits waiting for an
interrupt from a 3270 device, and uses that device for the rest of the
communication. To me, that means it works just like SADUMP, DFDSS, and
ICKDSF and there is no console configuration.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
I've tested ZZSA under Hercules - Thanks to Sam Golob's fine work - but I didn't see how to define a console as an HMC integretated console (hmcs) ?
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Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer – RavenTek Solution Partners
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 10:14 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question
Oh... you mean HMC console. New answer: I did not try that, but prior to going to that site I had never user ZZSA before so I tested it under Hercules, and that simulates the HMC console I believe, so I'd bet the answer is yes.
I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems.  That
was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the
CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor)  <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners
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Seymour J Metz
2018-10-09 18:53:02 UTC
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TN3270 is a different animal from HMC, whether line mode or 3270 mode. TN3270 to an ICC looks like a local non-SNA 3270.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Tom Brennan <***@TOMBRENNANSOFTWARE.COM>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 11:52 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question

I just tested ZZSA under Hercules and like I thought, when you connect
via Hercules TN3270 to simulate a console, after IPL no ZZSA messages
appear until you press Enter. That means ZZSA sits waiting for an
interrupt from a 3270 device, and uses that device for the rest of the
communication. To me, that means it works just like SADUMP, DFDSS, and
ICKDSF and there is no console configuration.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
I've tested ZZSA under Hercules - Thanks to Sam Golob's fine work - but I didn't see how to define a console as an HMC integretated console (hmcs) ?
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Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer – RavenTek Solution Partners
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 10:14 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question
Oh... you mean HMC console. New answer: I did not try that, but prior to going to that site I had never user ZZSA before so I tested it under Hercules, and that simulates the HMC console I believe, so I'd bet the answer is yes.
Post by Tom Brennan
I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems. That
was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the
CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners
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Tom Brennan
2018-10-09 20:22:19 UTC
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Thanks, I need to see if I can look at the SADMP source code. I know
how CCW's work for a 3270 unit at IPL time, but it would be interesting
to see if a totally different method is used when CONSOLE=SYSC is coded.

And I need to correct myself: I looked at my old SA ICKDSF notes and
the console address needs to be coded in the loadparm, such as CNSLxxxx
- so messages appear immediately with no interrupt needed.
Post by Seymour J Metz
TN3270 is a different animal from HMC, whether line mode or 3270 mode. TN3270 to an ICC looks like a local non-SNA 3270.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question
I just tested ZZSA under Hercules and like I thought, when you connect
via Hercules TN3270 to simulate a console, after IPL no ZZSA messages
appear until you press Enter. That means ZZSA sits waiting for an
interrupt from a 3270 device, and uses that device for the rest of the
communication. To me, that means it works just like SADUMP, DFDSS, and
ICKDSF and there is no console configuration.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
I've tested ZZSA under Hercules - Thanks to Sam Golob's fine work - but I didn't see how to define a console as an HMC integretated console (hmcs) ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer – RavenTek Solution Partners
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 10:14 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question
Oh... you mean HMC console. New answer: I did not try that, but prior to going to that site I had never user ZZSA before so I tested it under Hercules, and that simulates the HMC console I believe, so I'd bet the answer is yes.
Post by Tom Brennan
I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems. That
was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the
CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-10-05 21:54:28 UTC
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We don't have ZZSA, so I can't comment on the original question. But we happened to do an IPL today on a sandbox system, so I watched it on the 3270 integrated console.

I was seeing messages from the system until it was shut down. Continued watching for a while, then got distracted. When I went back to it, normal system message traffic was displaying. No <Enter> was necessary to initiate the flow. These were post-NIP 'sysplex enabled' messages, same as were showing on SNA SMCS through another member of the same sysplex.

I wasn't focused during NIP, but my experience with integrated 3270 is the same as with Operating System Messages. NIP messages will display on the HMC only if (1) no NIP consoles are defined in IODF, or (2) no IODF-defined consoles are 'physically available' from NIP's perspective. In contrast to IODF, we define SADMP with CONSOLE=SYSC, i.e. HMC.

No experience with standalone DSS or DSF for comparison.

.
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J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
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-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 8:53 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question

I just tested ZZSA under Hercules and like I thought, when you connect via Hercules TN3270 to simulate a console, after IPL no ZZSA messages appear until you press Enter. That means ZZSA sits waiting for an interrupt from a 3270 device, and uses that device for the rest of the communication. To me, that means it works just like SADUMP, DFDSS, and ICKDSF and there is no console configuration.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
I've tested ZZSA under Hercules - Thanks to Sam Golob's fine work - but I didn't see how to define a console as an HMC integretated console (hmcs) ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer – RavenTek Solution Partners
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 10:14 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ZZSA question
Oh... you mean HMC console. New answer: I did not try that, but prior to going to that site I had never user ZZSA before so I tested it under Hercules, and that simulates the HMC console I believe, so I'd bet the answer is yes.
I used (well mostly watched) ZZSA work via ICC with no problems. 
That was a couple of years ago on a new z13s with OSA 5S cards.
Post by Dyck, Lionel B. , RavenTek
Does anyone know if the ZZSA tool (stand alone utilities) on the
CBTTape can use the HMC Integrated Console?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-----
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor)  <sdg><
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners
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Tom Brennan
2018-10-05 23:39:14 UTC
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Well, as usual you told me something I didn't know - the CONSOLE=SYSC
option in SA Dump :) So I looked at my JCL the last time I created
tapes for SA ICKDSF/DFDSS. ICKDSF has no options (you just IEBGENER
from SAMPLIB) but DFDSS does have the OPERCNSL option - it just doesn't
seem to have anything specifically for the HMC console.

Now if ZZSA would have something like the CONSOLE=SYSC parm, that may be
what Lionel is looking for. But I don't see anything in ZZSA doc other
than "Press Enter".

Anybody know if source code for ZZSA is available? I remember looking
years ago and not finding anything.
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We don't have ZZSA, so I can't comment on the original question. But we happened to do an IPL today on a sandbox system, so I watched it on the 3270 integrated console.
I was seeing messages from the system until it was shut down. Continued watching for a while, then got distracted. When I went back to it, normal system message traffic was displaying. No <Enter> was necessary to initiate the flow. These were post-NIP 'sysplex enabled' messages, same as were showing on SNA SMCS through another member of the same sysplex.
I wasn't focused during NIP, but my experience with integrated 3270 is the same as with Operating System Messages. NIP messages will display on the HMC only if (1) no NIP consoles are defined in IODF, or (2) no IODF-defined consoles are 'physically available' from NIP's perspective. In contrast to IODF, we define SADMP with CONSOLE=SYSC, i.e. HMC.
No experience with standalone DSS or DSF for comparison.
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Farley, Peter x23353
2018-10-05 23:54:02 UTC
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Binary DL for ZZSA is located at the CBTTAPE website in Jan Jaeger's area:

http://www.cbttape.org/~jjaeger/

I don't know if source was ever available, but the Hercules Yahoo group could probably answer that question better than I can.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:39 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ZZSA question

Well, as usual you told me something I didn't know - the CONSOLE=SYSC option in SA Dump :) So I looked at my JCL the last time I created tapes for SA ICKDSF/DFDSS. ICKDSF has no options (you just IEBGENER from SAMPLIB) but DFDSS does have the OPERCNSL option - it just doesn't seem to have anything specifically for the HMC console.

Now if ZZSA would have something like the CONSOLE=SYSC parm, that may be what Lionel is looking for. But I don't see anything in ZZSA doc other than "Press Enter".

Anybody know if source code for ZZSA is available? I remember looking years ago and not finding anything.
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We don't have ZZSA, so I can't comment on the original question. But we happened to do an IPL today on a sandbox system, so I watched it on the 3270 integrated console.
I was seeing messages from the system until it was shut down. Continued watching for a while, then got distracted. When I went back to it, normal system message traffic was displaying. No <Enter> was necessary to initiate the flow. These were post-NIP 'sysplex enabled' messages, same as were showing on SNA SMCS through another member of the same sysplex.
I wasn't focused during NIP, but my experience with integrated 3270 is the same as with Operating System Messages. NIP messages will display on the HMC only if (1) no NIP consoles are defined in IODF, or (2) no IODF-defined consoles are 'physically available' from NIP's perspective. In contrast to IODF, we define SADMP with CONSOLE=SYSC, i.e. HMC.
No experience with standalone DSS or DSF for comparison.
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Timothy Sipples
2018-10-06 07:39:56 UTC
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Has anyone tried ZZSA on the IBM z14 yet? I'm curious whether it IPLs. It
probably will, but I'm curious if anyone has tried.

Will it IPL on a machine with only IFLs?

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Brian Westerman
2018-10-07 09:20:07 UTC
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It IPLs on z13, z13s and z14-ZR1. (also zBC12, zEC12, z114, z10BC, z9 and z890). I have not tried anything older lately, but one of our clients still has a z/800, I expect it will probably work there. I could give it a shot if there is some need to know, but I can't think of any reason it would not work.

Brian Westerman

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R.S.
2018-10-08 13:44:15 UTC
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Post by Brian Westerman
It IPLs on z13, z13s and z14-ZR1. (also zBC12, zEC12, z114, z10BC, z9 and z890). I have not tried anything older lately, but one of our clients still has a z/800, I expect it will probably work there. I could give it a shot if there is some need to know, but I can't think of any reason it would not work.
The reason is z14 changed things. It is no longer possible to IPL in
ESA/390 mode.
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