Discussion:
Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?
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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-13 06:25:56 UTC
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I'm not a SHARE member, but I understand SHARE does have some influence in what IBM does and does not do. I would appreciate if SHARE would immediately go strongly after IBM for what they are currently doing to their web content. I'm not in a position to do that, unfortunately. I know there are members on this list who have a deeper connection to SHARE. Can any of you help us, please?



This is sabotage! Sabotage to IBM's clients!



For the last couple of years, IBM (and other companies) have forced us towards the internet. Acquiring information in usable formats such as Bookmaster or PDFs was made harder and harder, if you were lucky you could find a place to download documentation. But the longer the more, documentation became available as webpages only, without the possibility to save a copy locally for later reference.


And now they feel comfortable to break that internet. Now they feel comfortable to remove content of products still in service.


I have no confidence in my own management whatsoever, so I won'd even try to tell then what is going on, and ask them for help by approaching IBM. It's a waste of time. And this is why I'm hoping for SHARE to support us in this matter
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zMan
2018-06-13 12:44:46 UTC
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There's nobody left at IBM who can fix this. Critical internal websites go
down for days. Another round of purges has started in POK. It's just a
matter of time now, and Ginny & co. are clueless.

They just keep cutting, looking for the elephant.
Post by Peter Hunkeler
I'm not a SHARE member, but I understand SHARE does have some influence in
what IBM does and does not do. I would appreciate if SHARE would
immediately go strongly after IBM for what they are currently doing to
their web content. I'm not in a position to do that, unfortunately. I know
there are members on this list who have a deeper connection to SHARE. Can
any of you help us, please?
This is sabotage! Sabotage to IBM's clients!
For the last couple of years, IBM (and other companies) have forced us
towards the internet. Acquiring information in usable formats such as
Bookmaster or PDFs was made harder and harder, if you were lucky you could
find a place to download documentation. But the longer the more,
documentation became available as webpages only, without the possibility to
save a copy locally for later reference.
And now they feel comfortable to break that internet. Now they feel
comfortable to remove content of products still in service.
I have no confidence in my own management whatsoever, so I won'd even try
to tell then what is going on, and ask them for help by approaching IBM.
It's a waste of time. And this is why I'm hoping for SHARE to support us in
this matter
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Linda
2018-06-13 14:54:37 UTC
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Hi Peter,

I agree that the product vendor has the primary responsibility of providing clear, accurate, and readily available doc, but I still like to have matching doc at the level I install and with a copy of my install notes, along with anything else that might come in handy if I need to respond to a problem while away from the shop.

I like PrimoPDF, and Acrobat, and several of the others. Your preference and mileage may vary, of course. There are a number of others available as well. Some are free, a good number more are very reasonable.

Having a USB stick of docs can also be very useful. I am particularly fond of having a PDF that matches the product install level, along with any other levels that might be useful.

While I would like to see IBM's product libraries full and very reliably robust, with all of the levels we could ever want or need, ( even if we are behind in out product updates ), I can't imagine that every doc for everything will always be fingertip available. It does take some extra work, but to me, it sure beats scrambling to find the doc I need when I need it. That goes double for any shop related settings or configuration doc.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV may vary, of course.

Linda






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Post by Peter Hunkeler
I'm not a SHARE member, but I understand SHARE does have some influence in what IBM does and does not do. I would appreciate if SHARE would immediately go strongly after IBM for what they are currently doing to their web content. I'm not in a position to do that, unfortunately. I know there are members on this list who have a deeper connection to SHARE. Can any of you help us, please?
This is sabotage! Sabotage to IBM's clients!
For the last couple of years, IBM (and other companies) have forced us towards the internet. Acquiring information in usable formats such as Bookmaster or PDFs was made harder and harder, if you were lucky you could find a place to download documentation. But the longer the more, documentation became available as webpages only, without the possibility to save a copy locally for later reference.
And now they feel comfortable to break that internet. Now they feel comfortable to remove content of products still in service.
I have no confidence in my own management whatsoever, so I won'd even try to tell then what is going on, and ask them for help by approaching IBM. It's a waste of time. And this is why I'm hoping for SHARE to support us in this matter
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Jim Taylor
2018-06-13 16:10:27 UTC
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The ironic thing is it’s also broken links in their own Redbooks. For example the brand new Getting Started with z/OS Data Set Encryption redbook dated June 2018 (http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248410.pdf) has multiple links that no longer work in the Related Publications appendix!

Jim
Post by Peter Hunkeler
I'm not a SHARE member, but I understand SHARE does have some influence in what IBM does and does not do. I would appreciate if SHARE would immediately go strongly after IBM for what they are currently doing to their web content. I'm not in a position to do that, unfortunately. I know there are members on this list who have a deeper connection to SHARE. Can any of you help us, please?
This is sabotage! Sabotage to IBM's clients!
For the last couple of years, IBM (and other companies) have forced us towards the internet. Acquiring information in usable formats such as Bookmaster or PDFs was made harder and harder, if you were lucky you could find a place to download documentation. But the longer the more, documentation became available as webpages only, without the possibility to save a copy locally for later reference.
And now they feel comfortable to break that internet. Now they feel comfortable to remove content of products still in service.
I have no confidence in my own management whatsoever, so I won'd even try to tell then what is going on, and ask them for help by approaching IBM. It's a waste of time. And this is why I'm hoping for SHARE to support us in this matter
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Peter Hunkeler
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Seymour J Metz
2018-06-13 18:23:00 UTC
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IMHO it's reasonable for IBM to steer customers to the Internet. Steering them to the WWW, especially to sites that don't have a stable URL, is another matter; I'd rather see FTP and SFTP sites for, e.g., downloading documentation, with stable host names.


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Peter Hunkeler <***@GMX.CH>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 2:25 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

I'm not a SHARE member, but I understand SHARE does have some influence in what IBM does and does not do. I would appreciate if SHARE would immediately go strongly after IBM for what they are currently doing to their web content. I'm not in a position to do that, unfortunately. I know there are members on this list who have a deeper connection to SHARE. Can any of you help us, please?



This is sabotage! Sabotage to IBM's clients!



For the last couple of years, IBM (and other companies) have forced us towards the internet. Acquiring information in usable formats such as Bookmaster or PDFs was made harder and harder, if you were lucky you could find a place to download documentation. But the longer the more, documentation became available as webpages only, without the possibility to save a copy locally for later reference.


And now they feel comfortable to break that internet. Now they feel comfortable to remove content of products still in service.


I have no confidence in my own management whatsoever, so I won'd even try to tell then what is going on, and ask them for help by approaching IBM. It's a waste of time. And this is why I'm hoping for SHARE to support us in this matter




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Peter Hunkeler

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Ralph Robison
2018-06-14 12:16:08 UTC
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Peter,

Others have made useful recommendations for the general situation.

For the specific disappearing doc that you encountered, I wonder whether it may have been an error rather than intentionally removed. In either case, it may be useful to cite the specific doc that has become unavailable. Quite likely, someone can help you find what you need.

Ralph

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Tom Conley
2018-06-14 13:05:33 UTC
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Post by Linda
Peter,
Others have made useful recommendations for the general situation.
For the specific disappearing doc that you encountered, I wonder whether it may have been an error rather than intentionally removed. In either case, it may be useful to cite the specific doc that has become unavailable. Quite likely, someone can help you find what you need.
Ralph
Years ago IBM spent many millions of dollars to convert all their
documentation to KC. The rationale was largely to make the doc
searchable by Internet search engines like Google. A week ago, someone
at IBM unilaterally decided to remove this doc, immediately making
Google searches against IBM doc completely worthless. It's not just one
or two documents or links. ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE
INTERNET BY IBM!! DO A GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!

Peter's anger is justified. IBM has screwed up royally here, and as far
as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.

Regards,
Tom Conley

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John Eells
2018-06-14 13:29:46 UTC
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I don't think it's actually the case that it was all removed, even
though I will agree that it is more difficult to find. I thought
someone posted this link a few days ago, but it has been working fine
for me:

https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument

This is what I see one page level up from that:

z/OS Library
Search using IBM Knowledge Center | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 | *
Search at the element or book level | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 | *
Download books in PDF format | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 |
Download Adobe Indexed PDF collection | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 |
Download content for use with (KC) | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 |

(I hope the formatting survives!)

Of those options, I see that there are no V2R1 links for the first two
(the search options), and no V2R2 link for the last one as I write this.

The biggest problem with this is the unavailability of release-specific
search for 2.1, and in not necessarily knowing what things documented in
KC and in the the PDFs for 2.2 and 2.3 are implemented on 2.1. For all
practical purposes, with limited exceptions, though, all the information
you need for 2.1 is probably in the 2.2 books, too.

Behind the scenes, I know that people *are* working on this, even if the
fruits of their efforts have not yet become apparent. I am pretty far
removed from those efforts, so I won't try to summarize status or
predict anything, but I can tell you that the issue has caught some
fairly high-level attention.

All that said, on behalf of IBM I can only apologize for the current
state of affairs. Like you, I hope it is short-lived.
Post by Tom Conley
Years ago IBM spent many millions of dollars to convert all their
documentation to KC.  The rationale was largely to make the doc
searchable by Internet search engines like Google.  A week ago, someone
at IBM unilaterally decided to remove this doc, immediately making
Google searches against IBM doc completely worthless.  It's not just one
or two documents or links.  ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE
INTERNET BY IBM!!  DO A GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Peter's anger is justified.  IBM has screwed up royally here, and as far
as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.
Regards,
Tom Conley
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Phil Carlyle
2018-06-14 13:44:18 UTC
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I’m afraid I agree, every link that had z/OS 2.1 ended up with “No Longer Available”. The searches all ended in frustration.
The real question is “has IBM removed all of its z/OS documentation?” Will this be repaired or are we all going to have to go back to paper?

PHIL CARLYLE
Information Security | IAM RACF directory services
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TEKSystems

“The Universe is made up of Protons, Neutrons, Electrons & Morons!”

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 6:29 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

I don't think it's actually the case that it was all removed, even
though I will agree that it is more difficult to find. I thought
someone posted this link a few days ago, but it has been working fine
for me:

https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument<https://isolate.menlosecurity.com/1/3735928037/https:/www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument>

This is what I see one page level up from that:

z/OS Library
Search using IBM Knowledge Center | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 | *
Search at the element or book level | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 | *
Download books in PDF format | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 |
Download Adobe Indexed PDF collection | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 |
Download content for use with (KC) | V2R3 | V2R2 | V2R1 |

(I hope the formatting survives!)

Of those options, I see that there are no V2R1 links for the first two
(the search options), and no V2R2 link for the last one as I write this.

The biggest problem with this is the unavailability of release-specific
search for 2.1, and in not necessarily knowing what things documented in
KC and in the the PDFs for 2.2 and 2.3 are implemented on 2.1. For all
practical purposes, with limited exceptions, though, all the information
you need for 2.1 is probably in the 2.2 books, too.

Behind the scenes, I know that people *are* working on this, even if the
fruits of their efforts have not yet become apparent. I am pretty far
removed from those efforts, so I won't try to summarize status or
predict anything, but I can tell you that the issue has caught some
fairly high-level attention.

All that said, on behalf of IBM I can only apologize for the current
state of affairs. Like you, I hope it is short-lived.
Post by Tom Conley
Years ago IBM spent many millions of dollars to convert all their
documentation to KC. The rationale was largely to make the doc
searchable by Internet search engines like Google. A week ago, someone
at IBM unilaterally decided to remove this doc, immediately making
Google searches against IBM doc completely worthless. It's not just one
or two documents or links. ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE
INTERNET BY IBM!! DO A GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Peter's anger is justified. IBM has screwed up royally here, and as far
as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.
Regards,
Tom Conley
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Ed Jaffe
2018-06-14 14:54:01 UTC
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ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BY IBM!!  DO A
GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Peter's anger is justified.  IBM has screwed up royally here, and as
far as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.
There is no justification for having removed this doc. z/OS 2.1 is still
in service...

https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=ZSL03438USEN
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Jack J. Woehr
2018-06-14 15:14:37 UTC
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ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BY IBM!!  DO A
GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Stop whining and buy a used Power8 and install IBM i 7.3, "What z/OS
should have been and never was" :)
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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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John McKown
2018-06-14 15:20:28 UTC
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Post by Ed Jaffe
ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BY IBM!! DO A
GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Peter's anger is justified. IBM has screwed up royally here, and as
far as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.
There is no justification for having removed this doc. z/OS 2.1 is still
in service...
​IMO, this is a not-so-subtle way for IBM to say "If you want support or
even information, keep spending time and money to keep up to date." They
could make the site "static" for little cost (some disk, some CPU & memory,
some bandwidth) but perhaps they have some strange "justify your disk
usage" policy which mandates removing "obsolete" data as soon as possible.
Sounds like an PHB idea to me. Because everybody knows that empty disk (or
SSD) space costs​ less than one with actual data on it.
Post by Ed Jaffe
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=ZSL03438USEN
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Mike Schwab
2018-06-14 16:28:14 UTC
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Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
Post by Ed Jaffe
ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BY IBM!! DO A
GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Peter's anger is justified. IBM has screwed up royally here, and as
far as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.
There is no justification for having removed this doc. z/OS 2.1 is still
in service...
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=ZSL03438USEN
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-14 16:41:47 UTC
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Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual.



Very good point! I strongly prefer to read PDFs over KC web pages when I need to read more than a few paragraphs. However, with the change to continuous delivery, online documentation, being up to date, is required.


I have a couple of gigabytes of z/OS related PDFs on my workstation, and on my iPad. However, I always look up the newest issue on the web when something looks odd. Maybe a PTF has introduced new behaviour.


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Ed Jaffe
2018-06-14 17:33:12 UTC
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Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
No argument there, but saying that provides no rationale or
justification for removal of the z/OS 2.1 KC content which is what this
thread is about...
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Kirk Wolf
2018-06-14 20:01:45 UTC
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This may have been said before, but if IBM wanted to remove stuff, the
appropriate way is to:

1) use robots.txt or equivalent to exclude the to-be-deleted documents from
search indexes
2) wait some period of time for crawlers to re-index
3) Remove the pages

Google in particular I believe has some tools that you can use to
pro-actively remove pages from their indexes. If they aren't bring these
pages back, then this is what they should do to clean up the mess that they
have made.

Dealing with search indexes is something that professional web site
publishers should know how to do.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com
Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
No argument there, but saying that provides no rationale or justification
for removal of the z/OS 2.1 KC content which is what this thread is about...
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
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Seymour J Metz
2018-06-15 17:18:23 UTC
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IMHO, IBM should be very cautious about using noindex and robots.txt; there are legitimate reasons to search for old manuals.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Kirk Wolf <***@DOVETAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 4:01 PM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

This may have been said before, but if IBM wanted to remove stuff, the
appropriate way is to:

1) use robots.txt or equivalent to exclude the to-be-deleted documents from
search indexes
2) wait some period of time for crawlers to re-index
3) Remove the pages

Google in particular I believe has some tools that you can use to
pro-actively remove pages from their indexes. If they aren't bring these
pages back, then this is what they should do to clean up the mess that they
have made.

Dealing with search indexes is something that professional web site
publishers should know how to do.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1k7juFj0i6xddswkmI_nEVdWuZc0OR6cgXJv1oKj32Zlqy1FVfRQVU-R1YkVedK6r71H00sd3Q7YKGwnGsogG6oASFz3bjIEkCNMSNJdt5SRdprjUSjPbJSSFiXMmSY8KS_jFvNy22z1kHhaHfIguCItILsxosVz1qNqefKApWeOvkhyv03t8aldu8B0_B89VaLkcU4t17A98ZpfOswahhEj0mBxftpRqUkB7K7DtrBuDK5IA94XG7nPM8-DVCNZv6IUdhpInQ2_syNwhYWg5ecGSV4mw-cnsREQln3TfqzdIxylFKti2SoSG28mu8MshiHNRNgupptl3saqWnPso_BC3uCga9NFglwaWG4WAJxNFHMixfkEA3aHB3OrdVcDI_3TWR88OHXZGyXzn0Oggudd69OLDWWtqMEME4sKjp_acvoQzABM6raXnXXQeAVtd/http%3A%2F%2Fdovetail.com
Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
No argument there, but saying that provides no rationale or justification
for removal of the z/OS 2.1 KC content which is what this thread is about...
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1jiowD_91V14FjGKAez-b6driaIyDxNkfuJJLfLMO0h6wiKo0hj4dBV2ZzkPMu6A8A9UnbSjPqUGkDYa9MJ4nYpJh9cAxUQC1UTS41g9wNJBIPdnSG9xgruJAeRc-vBnDO_sjGigLGvGieBzhTTKhPe6du34_24TNZHvZYrztMJkZtuJIiAuznVzs0sX4ePUKmsGFi6BL9tWUH86PkO-CEFgoKe-_IGgYRkNcawD4180eUP2zNVWr0p6Sq9-rKB9urD1ChPsc1u0UKnIq4tJRVzzAqg0p6K5sAeh1E0g9_sZdZGoWMA2gEDNI7_l-k7mQN9VMSFXXW9LlhOsR2puKl-B-5FrwFTyKXmYIyqygz6wTxb_vioYSWU_YT4DBjnCFFfbvkUrrG-fbbDMpB54BqSeukFguXCGplqsHteH5AH3UvDjWVVGv2afcMlrax3SR/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%2F
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Phil Carlyle
2018-06-14 13:49:27 UTC
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Ok, let’s try this simple search – “VSAM DATA SET TYPES”

Results:

About this result<https://www.google.com/url?url=https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6229325?hl%3Den-US&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&usg=AOvVaw0NtgjYZu26UdaYq-GX6ef6&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje3p2CpdPbAhXqj1QKHR_9A9QQrpwBCDA>
Selection of VSAM Data Set Types - IBM<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/dsfor.htm>
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/.../dsfor.htm
1. Cached<https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gZxATuQhuBwJ:https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/dsfor.htm+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
2. Similar<https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&q=related:https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/dsfor.htm+vsam+data+set+types&tbo=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje3p2CpdPbAhXqj1QKHR_9A9QQHwg3MAI>
Selection of VSAM Data Set Types. VSAM supports several data set types: entry-sequenced (ESDS), key-sequenced (KSDS), linear (LDS), fixed-length, and variable-length relative record (RRDS).
Summary of VSAM Data Set Types - IBM<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/d4264.htm>
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/.../d4264.htm
1. Cached<https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bmKUpe71nQgJ:https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/d4264.htm+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
Table 1. Comparison of ESDS, KSDS, fixed-length RRDS, variable-length RRDS, and linear data sets. ESDS, KSDS, Fixed-Length RRDS, Variable-Length ...
VSAM and non-VSAM data set types and events - IBM<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSMPHH_9.1.0/com.ibm.guardium91.doc/AUVV9.1/DITA/auvac036.html>
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSMPHH_9.../auvac036.html
1. Cached<https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Vimf-Zs3phQJ:https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSMPHH_9.1.0/com.ibm.guardium91.doc/AUVV9.1/DITA/auvac036.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
InfoSphere Guardium S-TAP for Data Sets agent performs data set and record level monitoring for VSAM and non-VSAM data sets. The data set types, as well as ...

None of this links are good.

Results of links:

Documentation for z/OS V2.1.0 is no longer available in IBM Knowledge Center.
While the product version and release remains in service, you can find information in the following formats:

* Individual PDFs for downloading: https://www.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument
* z/OS V2R1 Adobe Indexed Collection (all PDFs with full text search via the free Adobe Acrobat Reader): http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/zoslib/pdf/zosv2r1pdfcollection.zip
* IBM Knowledge Center plugins for downloading (for use with IBM Knowledge Center for z/OS): http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/zoslib/SSLTBW_2.1.0_4KC.jar.
For information about current releases of this product see http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW/welcome<http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW/welcome?view=kc>.
More information and resources are available at the IBM z/OS Internet Library: https://www.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosinternetlibrary?opendocument.
How’s that? I consider that pretty intentional.


PHIL CARLYLE
Information Security | IAM RACF directory services
M: 480-235-2837 | ***@aexp.com<mailto:***@aexp.com>
TEKSystems

“The Universe is made up of Protons, Neutrons, Electrons & Morons!”

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ralph Robison
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 5:16 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Peter,

Others have made useful recommendations for the general situation.

For the specific disappearing doc that you encountered, I wonder whether it may have been an error rather than intentionally removed. In either case, it may be useful to cite the specific doc that has become unavailable. Quite likely, someone can help you find what you need.

Ralph

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Carmen Vitullo
2018-06-14 13:20:42 UTC
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hum.... my reply to this post via email is not getting....posted ?
trying again..

Totally agree ! very frustrating, what's more frustrating is I spent a good amount of time setting up a KC server on my local system and still the search engine is a JOKE.
I have 2.2 KC and CICS (that's all I can get for 2.2) and I use the search bar for 'zos command' and get no search results!! really IBM???
I'm going back to downloading the doc(PDF) to a windows share, at least I know i can

1) find what I need

2) its searchable


Carmen Vitullo

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Dejan Stamatovic
2018-06-14 15:36:38 UTC
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ALL z/OS V2R1 CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BY IBM!!  DO A
GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!
Peter's anger is justified.  IBM has screwed up royally here, and as
far as I can tell, they're not lifting a finger to fix the situation.
There is no justification for having removed this doc. z/OS 2.1 is still
in service...

https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=ZSL03438USEN


I totally subscribe to Edward E. Jaffe point of view!

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John Eells
2018-06-14 16:01:25 UTC
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Does this link not work for everyone?

https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument

I fully recognize that this is not the full complement of what was
available before, but my (only) point is that the 2.1 documentation
seems to be available.
--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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PINION, RICHARD W.
2018-06-14 16:04:17 UTC
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That's not what most of us are complaining about. It's when doing a Google search, and Google returns hits that are referencing the 2.1 manuals, which are not there. And for whatever reason, Google is only returning hits on 2.1.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:01 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

[External Email]

Does this link not work for everyone?

https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument

I fully recognize that this is not the full complement of what was available before, but my (only) point is that the 2.1 documentation seems to be available.

--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-14 16:32:43 UTC
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Post by John Eells
Does this link not work for everyone?
https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument
I can't tell if it is working for everyone, but I can confirm that is for me.


--
Peter Hunkeler



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Tom Conley
2018-06-14 16:40:48 UTC
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Post by John Eells
Does this link not work for everyone?
https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument
I fully recognize that this is not the full complement of what was
available before, but my (only) point is that the 2.1 documentation
seems to be available.
FYI,

I apologize to my good friend, the distinguished gentleman from NY, and
ask for unanimous consent to revise and extend my previous remarks. I
should have said:

ALL z/OS V2R1 <KC> CONTENT WAS REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BY IBM!! DO A
GOOGLE SEARCH, AND NONE OF THE LINKS WORK!!

THEY TOOK THE z/OS V2R1 KC DOC!! THE WHOLE BLEEPING z/OS V2R1 KC DOC!!

(I need a fifth of JD, quick).

Tom Conley

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Carmen Vitullo
2018-06-14 17:20:02 UTC
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It works for me but for me and I think others that is not the point, a google, bing or even an IBM site search brings up 2.1 links to pages that no longer exist and I didn't search for 2.1 content, no other hits come back for 2.2 or 2.3, all searches link you to 2.1 KC that not there.
I'll stick to the PDF manuals I've downloaded, hopefully that will not go away, and search for what I need on my local MICROSOFT SHARE.



Carmen Vitullo

----- Original Message -----

From: "John Eells" <***@US.IBM.COM>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:01:12 AM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Does this link not work for everyone?

https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r1-pdf-download?OpenDocument

I fully recognize that this is not the full complement of what was
available before, but my (only) point is that the 2.1 documentation
seems to be available.
--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Paul Gilmartin
2018-06-14 21:21:13 UTC
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Post by Ed Jaffe
Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
No argument there, but saying that provides no rationale or
justification for removal of the z/OS 2.1 KC content which is what this
thread is about...
Used to be, I recall, that many of the doc pages had pop-ups allowing the
reader to select other releases of the equivalent topic.

-- gil

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Jerry Callen
2018-06-15 12:29:21 UTC
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Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
OK, here's a constructive proposal: there should be a single HTML-based web tree that contains the doc for the MOST CURRENT VERSION of z/OS. Each page would then have a menu dropdown to allow you to select an earlier release. The URLs for the current pages would be kept STABLE, so that links from other pages won't go dead when future releases come out.

The web designers would use robots.txt or whatever to keep crawlers out of the back level doc, so that only the most current doc is indexed. The when you search for "IDCAMS REPRO", you get the hits to the LATEST doc, but can find the back-level stuff easily enough.

I agree that the PDFs are valuable (I use them all the time), but it's ALSO really handy to be able to embed a link to the EXACT SPOT n the documentation that I am referring to, and that requires a URL to a page, not to a PTF.

-- Jerry

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Seymour J Metz
2018-06-15 16:39:00 UTC
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Isn't there provision for anchors in the current version of PDF?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Jerry Callen <***@NARSIL.ORG>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2018 8:29 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?
Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
OK, here's a constructive proposal: there should be a single HTML-based web tree that contains the doc for the MOST CURRENT VERSION of z/OS. Each page would then have a menu dropdown to allow you to select an earlier release. The URLs for the current pages would be kept STABLE, so that links from other pages won't go dead when future releases come out.

The web designers would use robots.txt or whatever to keep crawlers out of the back level doc, so that only the most current doc is indexed. The when you search for "IDCAMS REPRO", you get the hits to the LATEST doc, but can find the back-level stuff easily enough.

I agree that the PDFs are valuable (I use them all the time), but it's ALSO really handy to be able to embed a link to the EXACT SPOT n the documentation that I am referring to, and that requires a URL to a page, not to a PTF.

-- Jerry

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David Crayford
2018-06-20 02:43:09 UTC
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Post by Jerry Callen
Post by Mike Schwab
Even if you have a z/OS 2.1 manual, some PTFs do add features or
command or document changes to older versions, and they only update
the newest manual. Sometimes it is best to get the newer manual then
check the document changes so you aren't referencing a feature only in
the newest release.
OK, here's a constructive proposal: there should be a single HTML-based web tree that contains the doc for the MOST CURRENT VERSION of z/OS. Each page would then have a menu dropdown to allow you to select an earlier release. The URLs for the current pages would be kept STABLE, so that links from other pages won't go dead when future releases come out.
That's how everybody else does it! Why IBM do not is nothing short of a
disgrace.
Post by Jerry Callen
The web designers would use robots.txt or whatever to keep crawlers out of the back level doc, so that only the most current doc is indexed. The when you search for "IDCAMS REPRO", you get the hits to the LATEST doc, but can find the back-level stuff easily enough.
I agree that the PDFs are valuable (I use them all the time), but it's ALSO really handy to be able to embed a link to the EXACT SPOT n the documentation that I am referring to, and that requires a URL to a page, not to a PTF.
-- Jerry
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Cheryl Watson
2018-06-21 14:42:09 UTC
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Here's our take on this issue -

http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/

All my best,
Cheryl

===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================

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Charles Mills
2018-06-21 16:28:55 UTC
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As would be expected, Cheryl absolutely nailed it!

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:42 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Here's our take on this issue -

http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/

All my best,
Cheryl

===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================

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Carmen Vitullo
2018-06-21 16:40:02 UTC
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Indeed! and articulated the z communities outage in a most civil manner
thank you Cheryl


Carmen Vitullo

----- Original Message -----

From: "Charles Mills" <***@MCN.ORG>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:28:45 AM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

As would be expected, Cheryl absolutely nailed it!

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:42 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Here's our take on this issue -

http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/

All my best,
Cheryl

===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================

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Chuck Kreiter
2018-06-21 17:06:48 UTC
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I was shocked when this article showed up on my front page on Reddit. Perfectly stated!

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:42 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Here's our take on this issue -

http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/

All my best,
Cheryl

===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================

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zMan
2018-06-21 18:30:32 UTC
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Good article, of course, Cheryl.

The one thing it didn't mention is that maintenance of these sites is being
moved overseas. That's not inherently bad, except that it inevitably leads
to a loss of tribal knowledge, which may be how these huge omissions
occurred.
Post by Chuck Kreiter
I was shocked when this article showed up on my front page on Reddit.
Perfectly stated!
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done
with their web content?
Here's our take on this issue -
http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/
All my best,
Cheryl
===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================
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zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Mike Hochee
2018-06-21 19:47:31 UTC
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Yes, extremely well stated, and timely too!.....

Ironically, it looks like the z/OS 2.2 Elements and Features pdf link https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r2-pdf-download?OpenDocument now points at numerous z/OS 2.1 manuals. I don't know how extensive the problem is, but all the manuals I checked under the z/OS MVS and RMF sections were 2.1 manuals. Oh well!

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:30 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Good article, of course, Cheryl.

The one thing it didn't mention is that maintenance of these sites is being moved overseas. That's not inherently bad, except that it inevitably leads to a loss of tribal knowledge, which may be how these huge omissions occurred.
Post by Chuck Kreiter
I was shocked when this article showed up on my front page on Reddit.
Perfectly stated!
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've
done with their web content?
Here's our take on this issue -
http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/
All my best,
Cheryl
===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================
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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
--
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Susan Shumway
2018-06-21 20:52:58 UTC
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Hi Mike,

I'm unable to replicate your problem. Please contact me directly and we
can try to get to the bottom of it. Thanks!

-Sue Shumway
Post by Mike Hochee
Yes, extremely well stated, and timely too!.....
Ironically, it looks like the z/OS 2.2 Elements and Features pdf link https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r2-pdf-download?OpenDocument now points at numerous z/OS 2.1 manuals. I don't know how extensive the problem is, but all the manuals I checked under the z/OS MVS and RMF sections were 2.1 manuals. Oh well!
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?
Good article, of course, Cheryl.
The one thing it didn't mention is that maintenance of these sites is being moved overseas. That's not inherently bad, except that it inevitably leads to a loss of tribal knowledge, which may be how these huge omissions occurred.
Post by Chuck Kreiter
I was shocked when this article showed up on my front page on Reddit.
Perfectly stated!
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've
done with their web content?
Here's our take on this issue -
http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/
All my best,
Cheryl
===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================
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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
--
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
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Sue Shumway
z/OS Product Documentation Lead
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Mike Hochee
2018-06-21 21:05:32 UTC
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Hi Sue,

It is working again now, and I'm noticing an updated look and feel with the 2.2 Elements and Features page. In my previous attempts, I opened new z.OS 2.2 Elements and Features tabs. This time however, I shutdown all tabs and restarted the browser. Regardless, it's working - Thank you.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Shumway
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 4:53 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?

Hi Mike,

I'm unable to replicate your problem. Please contact me directly and we can try to get to the bottom of it. Thanks!

-Sue Shumway
Post by Mike Hochee
Yes, extremely well stated, and timely too!.....
Ironically, it looks like the z/OS 2.2 Elements and Features pdf link https://www-304.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r2-pdf-download?OpenDocument now points at numerous z/OS 2.1 manuals. I don't know how extensive the problem is, but all the manuals I checked under the z/OS MVS and RMF sections were 2.1 manuals. Oh well!
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've done with their web content?
Good article, of course, Cheryl.
The one thing it didn't mention is that maintenance of these sites is being moved overseas. That's not inherently bad, except that it inevitably leads to a loss of tribal knowledge, which may be how these huge omissions occurred.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:06 PM, Chuck Kreiter
Post by Chuck Kreiter
I was shocked when this article showed up on my front page on Reddit.
Perfectly stated!
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Would SHARE kindly kick IBM in the ass for what the've
done with their web content?
Here's our take on this issue -
http://watsonwalker.com/what-is-happening-with-ibms-websites/
All my best,
Cheryl
===========================
Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
www.watsonwalker.com
===========================
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IBM-MAIN
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zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
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--
Sue Shumway
z/OS Product Documentation Lead
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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d***@gmail.com
2018-06-15 14:01:41 UTC
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The IBM website team who implemented the changes failed to successfully test their changes and are now looking like fools. I doubt that IBM managers wanted this to happen but I could be wrong as the implementation of DISQUS is not appreciated when we need to be on secure sites when accessing IBM from work. I don't appreciate IBM providing our email to DISQUS.
Tom Marchant
2018-06-22 11:38:14 UTC
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Post by Seymour J Metz
there are legitimate reasons to search for old manuals.
Indeed. Questions arise on here often enough about when something was
introduced or changed. I occasionally refer to MVS V4 or V5 documentation,
and even look for early MVS and OS/360 documentation on bitsavers.org.

IMO, there is absolutely no excuse for deleting documentation for z/OS 2.1,
a release that has not yet reached end of service.
--
Tom Marchant

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A. Harry Williams
2018-06-28 02:02:56 UTC
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Dear Peter
I apologize for not responding sooner to your plea for help, but I do want to publicly respond on behalf of SHARE.

SHARE is a community of people representing users of enterprise technology. As such, we regularly participate in discussions with various vendors in the Z ecosystem to influence the ability of those within the ecosystem to accomplish their business objectives, and that includes regular conversations with IBM. We do often find that open, frank conversations in private achieves more than ass-kicking in public so our response may be quieter. Because of you and others, we are aware of the situation with z/OS 2.1 documentation and others that are at risk.

For the information of IBM-MAIN readers, several members of the SHARE community have been actively engaging IBM on this issue for some weeks now, through a variety of formal as well as informal channels. As those efforts continue, please be assured that SHARE’s leadership is well aware of the concern and stands ready to assist as appropriate.

SHARE is always willing to listen in order to determine if there is a role that we can and should play to solve a problem that is impacting the ecosystem, regardless if someone is a Member of SHARE. The best way to reach out to us to start those conversations is via email to ***@share.org

A. Harry Williams
President
SHARE Association

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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-28 05:59:49 UTC
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Hello Harry,thank you very much for you response, and especially for picking this up.
I know the subject I chose was a bit harshly formulated, but I did this on purpose. I was hoping that it would get things going, and it did. I'm grateful.

Best regardsPeter
--
Peter Hunkeler



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