Discussion:
z14 and zBX
(too old to reply)
R.S.
2017-08-21 13:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I haven't seen any information regarding zBX for z14 machine.
Does it mean IBM (quietly) closed the idea of zBX?
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


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mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Dyck, Lionel B. , TRA
2017-08-21 14:00:07 UTC
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Maybe they are putting all that processing into Containers :-)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck
Mainframe Systems Programmer - TRA


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 8:58 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] z14 and zBX

I haven't seen any information regarding zBX for z14 machine.
Does it mean IBM (quietly) closed the idea of zBX?
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Allan Staller
2017-08-21 14:36:53 UTC
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More likely, no changes needed for zBx.

<snip>
I haven't seen any information regarding zBX for z14 machine.
Does it mean IBM (quietly) closed the idea of zBX?
</snip>


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Rob Schramm
2017-08-21 14:48:55 UTC
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Can't order zbx for a new z13. All functions have to be migrated.

Rob Schramm
Post by Allan Staller
More likely, no changes needed for zBx.
<snip>
I haven't seen any information regarding zBX for z14 machine.
Does it mean IBM (quietly) closed the idea of zBX?
</snip>
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Parwez Hamid
2017-08-21 18:42:04 UTC
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zBX was withdrawn from marketing on March 31, 2017. However, if you have a zBX Model 004 and the z14 has the Ensemble feature code 0025, the zBX can be in the same Ensemble as the z14. Remember, the zBX Model 004 is a standalone node and not 'tied' to a CPC e.g. z13/z13s/z14

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Phil Smith III
2017-08-22 00:12:48 UTC
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I believe zBX suffered from being too little, too late - if it had been
released a decade earlier, it might have been a killer. It was also a fairly
narrow solution in terms of what was available to run on it.



I also understand that it was dependent on specific hardware (blades), which
IBM did not manufacture. I heard (unsubstantiated) that when those blades
ended production, IBM they bought up a ton as spares; when zBX then failed
to take off, they were stuck with the inventory, and thus had dug themselves
a big hole from which the zBX could not escape.



Perhaps one of the ex-IBMers who lurk here can confirm or deny-I'm sure no
current IBMer would want to risk his/her job thusly!



.phsiii (who is sad, because he loved the idea of the zBX!)


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R.S.
2017-08-22 10:14:20 UTC
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Post by Phil Smith III
I believe zBX suffered from being too little, too late - if it had been
released a decade earlier, it might have been a killer. It was also a fairly
narrow solution in terms of what was available to run on it.
IMHO it was a mistake from the begining.
Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM,
etc. Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX
is just rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more
expensive. Even IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




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Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Parwez Hamid
2017-08-22 11:05:13 UTC
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Re the comment:

"Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM,
etc. Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX
is just rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more
expensive. Even IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA"

If this is all you understood about the product, either you were misinformed or it wasn't explained properly to you. As the zBX is now history, its pointless trying to 'sell' its real benefits/advantages. As regards the IDAA, it was a introduced before the zBX and was actually a variant of it!

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R.S.
2017-08-22 11:26:49 UTC
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Post by Parwez Hamid
"Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM,
etc. Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX
is just rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more
expensive. Even IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA"
If this is all you understood about the product, either you were
misinformed or it wasn't explained properly to you. As the zBX is now
history, its pointless trying to 'sell' its real benefits/advantages.
As regards the IDAA, it was a introduced before the zBX and was
actually a variant of it!
The above is some simplification, however I heard A LOT OF zBX, saw a
lot of presentations, and IBMers never ever convinced me the zBX is
something more than LAN-attached rack.
Regarding IDAA, at the time zBX was first introduced (z196), there was
ISAO - IBM Smart Analytics Optimizer. Then they changed name (only a
name?), then IDAA arrived.
And not, IDAA is NOT an zBX example! It does not use any of zBX specific
features. It's more like Dell/HP/AnyVendor LAN-attached appliance.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.



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Ed Jaffe
2017-08-27 15:33:13 UTC
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Post by R.S.
The above is some simplification, however I heard A LOT OF zBX, saw a
lot of presentations, and  IBMers never ever convinced me the zBX is
something more than LAN-attached rack.
zBX was a mistake. Every company makes them.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Anne & Lynn Wheeler
2017-08-27 16:50:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ed Jaffe
Post by R.S.
The above is some simplification, however I heard A LOT OF zBX, saw
a lot of presentations, and  IBMers never ever convinced me the zBX
is something more than LAN-attached rack.
zBX was a mistake. Every company makes them.
for at least past ten years, large public cloud operators have been
claiming that they assemble their own systems at 1/3rd the price of
brand name server vendors. their large megadatacenters having hundreds
of thousands of these system blades. Within past couple years, system
processor chip makers have been saying that they ship over half their
chips to these large megadatacenters ... significantly changing large
datacenter model (and possibly contributing to IBM selling off its
server business). Each one of these blades having upwards of ten times
the processing power of max. configured z14 ... and a single
megadatacenter will have several hundred thousand of these blades, and
there are large scores of these megadatacenters around the world.

more than 30 years ago

early 1979, I got con'ed into doing 4341 benchmarks (on engineering
4341, they hadn't started shipping yet) for LLNL that was looking at
getting 70 4341s for computer farm (sort of leading edge of cluster
supercomputers).

starting in the early 80s, we were working with director of NSF on
inter-connecting the NSF supercomputer centerrs. We were suppose to get
$20M ... but then congres cuts the budget and things drag on for
sometime while we continue to work with the director. I had also done a
proposal to do racks of processor chips ... racks with arbitrary mix of
cards with arbitrary mix of 370 & 801/risc CMOS chips. This is old email
having scheduled meeting with director of NSF but also a week of
meetings at research on racks full of arbitrary mix 370 & 801/risc chips
(I had to get somebody to fill in for me at the NSF meetings)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#email850315

I had project I called HSDT that had T1 and faster speed links ...
including connectivity to IBM mainframes using non-IBM controllers.
some HSDT email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#hsdt

Old email about doing CP (vm370) internals class and
meetings with NSF about connecting NSF supercomputer centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email850930
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email851114
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email851116

some more HSDT & NSF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email860505
more NSF related email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

eventually NSF releases a RFP (in part based on what we already have
running in HSDT), but internal politics prevents us from bidding,
director of NSF tries to help by writting letter to the company (with
support from other agencies) copying the CEO ... but that just makes the
internal politics worse. As regional networks connect into the center,
it evolves into the NSFNET backbone, precursor to modern internet.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/401444/grid-computing/

more HSDT email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#hsdt

during this period, the communication group is spreading misinformation
internally, even claiming that SNA/VTAM can be used ... even tho
SNA/VTAM doesn't support TCP/IP and 37x5 boxes doesn't support more than
56kbits/sec links. Somebody collects much of the mis-information email
and sends us a copy ... significantly clipped and redacted to protect
the guilty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email870109

there is not a lot of interest within IBM about including 370 chips in
cluster racks ... so eventually it is only 801/risc power chips. We are
working with national labs and supercomputer centers on cluster scaleup
for scientific/technical as well as RDBMS vendors on commercial cluster
scaleup. past reference JAN1992 meeting in Oracle CEO's office about
commercial cluster scaleup
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

within a couple weeks of the Oracle meeting, cluster scaleup was
transferred, announced as supercomputer, and we were told that we
couldn't work on anything with more than four processors.
17Feb1992 press about scientific/technical *ONLY*
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1
later in the spring 11May1992 press, IBM surprised in national lab
interest in cluster supercomputers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters2

more cluster scaleup email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
2017-08-27 16:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Jaffe
Post by R.S.
The above is some simplification, however I heard A LOT OF zBX, saw
a lot of presentations, and  IBMers never ever convinced me the zBX
is something more than LAN-attached rack.
zBX was a mistake. Every company makes them.
for at least past ten years, large public cloud operators have been
claiming that they assemble their own systems at 1/3rd the price of
brand name server vendors. their large megadatacenters having hundreds
of thousands of these system blades. Within past couple years, system
processor chip makers have been saying that they ship over half their
chips to these large megadatacenters ... significantly changing large
datacenter model (and possibly contributing to IBM selling off its
server business). Each one of these blades having upwards of ten times
the processing power of max. configured z14 ... and a single
megadatacenter will have several hundred thousand of these blades, and
there are large scores of these megadatacenters around the world.

more than 30 years ago

early 1979, I got con'ed into doing 4341 benchmarks (on engineering
4341, they hadn't started shipping yet) for LLNL that was looking at
getting 70 4341s for computer farm (sort of leading edge of cluster
supercomputers).

starting in the early 80s, we were working with director of NSF on
inter-connecting the NSF supercomputer centerrs. We were suppose to get
$20M ... but then congres cuts the budget and things drag on for
sometime while we continue to work with the director. I had also done a
proposal to do racks of processor chips ... racks with arbitrary mix of
cards with arbitrary mix of 370 & 801/risc CMOS chips. This is old email
having scheduled meeting with director of NSF but also a week of
meetings at research on racks full of arbitrary mix 370 & 801/risc chips
(I had to get somebody to fill in for me at the NSF meetings)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#email850315

I had project I called HSDT that had T1 and faster speed links ...
including connectivity to IBM mainframes using non-IBM controllers.
some HSDT email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#hsdt

Old email about doing CP (vm370) internals class and
meetings with NSF about connecting NSF supercomputer centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email850930
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email851114
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email851116

some more HSDT & NSF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email860505
more NSF related email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

eventually NSF releases a RFP (in part based on what we already have
running in HSDT), but internal politics prevents us from bidding,
director of NSF tries to help by writting letter to the company (with
support from other agencies) copying the CEO ... but that just makes the
internal politics worse. As regional networks connect into the center,
it evolves into the NSFNET backbone, precursor to modern internet.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/401444/grid-computing/

more HSDT email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#hsdt

during this period, the communication group is spreading misinformation
internally, even claiming that SNA/VTAM can be used ... even tho
SNA/VTAM doesn't support TCP/IP and 37x5 boxes doesn't support more than
56kbits/sec links. Somebody collects much of the mis-information email
and sends us a copy ... significantly clipped and redacted to protect
the guilty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email870109

there is not a lot of interest within IBM about including 370 chips in
cluster racks ... so eventually it is only 801/risc power chips. We are
working with national labs and supercomputer centers on cluster scaleup
for scientific/technical as well as RDBMS vendors on commercial cluster
scaleup. past reference JAN1992 meeting in Oracle CEO's office about
commercial cluster scaleup
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

within a couple weeks of the Oracle meeting, cluster scaleup was
transferred, announced as supercomputer, and we were told that we
couldn't work on anything with more than four processors.
17Feb1992 press about scientific/technical *ONLY*
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1
later in the spring 11May1992 press, IBM surprised in national lab
interest in cluster supercomputers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters2

more cluster scaleup email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Anne & Lynn Wheeler
2017-08-27 17:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Old email about doing CP (vm370) internals class and
meetings with NSF about connecting NSF supercomputer centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email850930
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email851114
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#email851116
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#89

oops, typo, that is a "b" (not an "h") z14 and zBX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#email850930
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#email851114
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#email851116
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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R.S.
2017-08-28 08:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ed Jaffe
Post by R.S.
The above is some simplification, however I heard A LOT OF zBX, saw a
lot of presentations, and IBMers never ever convinced me the zBX is
something more than LAN-attached rack.
zBX was a mistake. Every company makes them.
My English is poor, do you mean every company makes zBX or every company
makes errors? ;-)))
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




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Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Ed Jaffe
2017-08-28 23:59:24 UTC
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Post by R.S.
Post by Ed Jaffe
zBX was a mistake. Every company makes them.
My English is poor, do you mean every company makes zBX or every
company makes errors?  ;-)))
Every company makes zBX :-D
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Parwez Hamid
2017-08-22 13:20:58 UTC
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As I said, this is not the time for zBX education. Its history.

Re: Regarding IDAA, at the time zBX was first introduced (z196), there was
ISAO - IBM Smart Analytics Optimizer. Then they changed name (only a
name?), then IDAA arrived.
And not, IDAA is NOT an zBX example! It does not use any of zBX specific
features. It's more like Dell/HP/AnyVendor LAN-attached appliance.

ISAO did use 'similar' H/W and connectivity as the zBX with System X Blades. IDAA was the follow-on solution using PureData System for Analytics
(Netezza Technology). Both SOLUTIONs were (ISAO)/are (IDAA) tightly integrated with System z, z/OS and deep integration with DB2 providing transparency to all applications. IDAA is not just a LAN-attached appliance.


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R.S.
2017-08-22 13:30:19 UTC
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Post by Parwez Hamid
As I said, this is not the time for zBX education. Its history.
Re: Regarding IDAA, at the time zBX was first introduced (z196), there was
ISAO - IBM Smart Analytics Optimizer. Then they changed name (only a
name?), then IDAA arrived.
And not, IDAA is NOT an zBX example! It does not use any of zBX specific
features. It's more like Dell/HP/AnyVendor LAN-attached appliance.
ISAO did use 'similar' H/W and connectivity as the zBX with System X Blades. IDAA was the follow-on solution using PureData System for Analytics
(Netezza Technology). Both SOLUTIONs were (ISAO)/are (IDAA) tightly integrated with System z, z/OS and deep integration with DB2 providing transparency to all applications. IDAA is not just a LAN-attached appliance.
IDAA is just LAN-attached appliance. Yes, the solutions is great and
tightly integrated with DB2, but the HW platform is just LAN-connected.
No management via HMC, no OSM chpids, no OSX chpids.
And this is another proof there can be very useful solutions without
anything which is specific to zBX.
BTW: IDAA hardware is not just bunch of x86 blades.

BTW2: microcode and service management of IDAA sucks very much.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




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Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Phil Smith III
2017-08-22 14:32:56 UTC
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Post by R.S.
IMHO it was a mistake from the begining.
Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM, etc.
Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX is just
rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more expensive. Even
IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA.



The disadvantages you cite are real, for sure, and may have been sufficient
to kill the concept right there. But the *idea* was that high-impact
processing could be easily/seamlessly offloaded. The "too late" part is that
the folks who needed to do that had already bitten the bullet and done so.
Fifteen years ago, not so much.



I also suspect that fifteen years ago, the gaps-physical, political,
theological-between z and distributed folks were greater, such that it would
have been easier for the z folks to justify keeping the data away from those
squatty-box weenies that they didn't trust. By now, most z folks are
resigned to their interdependence on those same squatty-box weenies.



.phsiii ("It's a strange world, isn't it?" - Blue Velvet)


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Mike Schwab
2017-08-22 14:55:27 UTC
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The IBM 360 mainframe was designed to process data from other machines
and distribute to them. Punch cards, Printers, card to tape machines,
RJE machines, 3270 screens / printers. The PC with 3270 emulator (and
now browser) replaced an I/O device, but also became a storage / user
processing devices (spreadsheets, etc).
Post by Phil Smith III
Post by R.S.
IMHO it was a mistake from the begining.
Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM, etc.
Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX is just
rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more expensive. Even
IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA.
The disadvantages you cite are real, for sure, and may have been sufficient
to kill the concept right there. But the *idea* was that high-impact
processing could be easily/seamlessly offloaded. The "too late" part is that
the folks who needed to do that had already bitten the bullet and done so.
Fifteen years ago, not so much.
I also suspect that fifteen years ago, the gaps-physical, political,
theological-between z and distributed folks were greater, such that it would
have been easier for the z folks to justify keeping the data away from those
squatty-box weenies that they didn't trust. By now, most z folks are
resigned to their interdependence on those same squatty-box weenies.
.phsiii ("It's a strange world, isn't it?" - Blue Velvet)
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Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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zMan
2017-08-22 16:25:40 UTC
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Mike: Not taking your point...please elaborate?
Post by Mike Schwab
The IBM 360 mainframe was designed to process data from other machines
and distribute to them. Punch cards, Printers, card to tape machines,
RJE machines, 3270 screens / printers. The PC with 3270 emulator (and
now browser) replaced an I/O device, but also became a storage / user
processing devices (spreadsheets, etc).
Post by R.S.
Post by R.S.
IMHO it was a mistake from the begining.
Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM,
etc.
Post by R.S.
Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX is just
rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more expensive.
Even
Post by R.S.
IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA.
The disadvantages you cite are real, for sure, and may have been
sufficient
Post by R.S.
to kill the concept right there. But the *idea* was that high-impact
processing could be easily/seamlessly offloaded. The "too late" part is
that
Post by R.S.
the folks who needed to do that had already bitten the bullet and done
so.
Post by R.S.
Fifteen years ago, not so much.
I also suspect that fifteen years ago, the gaps-physical, political,
theological-between z and distributed folks were greater, such that it
would
Post by R.S.
have been easier for the z folks to justify keeping the data away from
those
Post by R.S.
squatty-box weenies that they didn't trust. By now, most z folks are
resigned to their interdependence on those same squatty-box weenies.
.phsiii ("It's a strange world, isn't it?" - Blue Velvet)
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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R.S.
2017-08-23 08:30:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Phil Smith III
Post by R.S.
IMHO it was a mistake from the begining.
Whenever I asked the question: "what is the difference between zBX and
regular 19" rack with blade servers" I heard about Ensemble, OSX, OSM, etc.
Customers do not need ensembles. From customer point of view zBX is just
rack with servers, but less flexible, vendor locked and more expensive. Even
IBM did not use zBX for its appliance like IDAA.
The disadvantages you cite are real, for sure, and may have been sufficient
to kill the concept right there. But the *idea* was that high-impact
processing could be easily/seamlessly offloaded. The "too late" part is that
the folks who needed to do that had already bitten the bullet and done so.
Fifteen years ago, not so much.
Now I understand your point. Yes, obviously you're right with the
offload and IDAA is excellent example of such offload, but it does not
exploit any of zBX-specific features. Some other offload examples could
be zEDC or even CryptoExpress. It's a kind of "internal offload" - the
offload is being done. but the appliance reside inside the CEC as a card.

BTW: It's a pity the IDAA is not under HMC management. It would
significantly simplify microcode management and possibly remote access
of service folks. Current procedures for that are horrible.


Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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