Discussion:
Here's a horrifying thought for all you management types....
(too old to reply)
Beverly Caldwell
2017-10-05 15:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
From an IBM red book, the one which describes Walmart’s adventures with
CICS in a cloud.

From the section which describes the activities of the CICS and z/OS
systems programmers:


“The traditional role of systems programmers over time became focused on
system
administration functions. But, to extend the capabilities of CICS, the
old-school, multi-role
technician must reemerge and embrace the latest technologies”


Well some of us never actually went away.


But wait, there’s more. It gets worse. Further on in the same article
there’s talk of:

“Selecting HLASM and COBOL as service development languages.”

Programming, Jim? *Assembler* language programming? I don’t think we need
any of *that* here.


What I would like to know is where were all the managers while all this
programming was going on. Does Walmart have the most enlightened managers
in the mainframe world or did they just not have a clue what was going on.
I suspect the latter, it’s unlikely Walmart’s managers are any different
from anyone else’s.


A very interesting red book with lots of detailed information although I
kept seeing the word 'service'. Not a word one would normally associate
with Walmart.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Savor, Thomas , Alpharetta
2017-10-05 15:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
As an "Assembler" guy.....that's great news !!!!!

Thanks,

Tom Savor


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Beverly Caldwell
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 11:47 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Here's a horrifying thought for all you management types....

From an IBM red book, the one which describes Walmart’s adventures with CICS in a cloud.

From the section which describes the activities of the CICS and z/OS systems programmers:


“The traditional role of systems programmers over time became focused on system administration functions. But, to extend the capabilities of CICS, the old-school, multi-role technician must reemerge and embrace the latest technologies”


Well some of us never actually went away.


But wait, there’s more. It gets worse. Further on in the same article there’s talk of:

“Selecting HLASM and COBOL as service development languages.”

Programming, Jim? *Assembler* language programming? I don’t think we need any of *that* here.


What I would like to know is where were all the managers while all this programming was going on. Does Walmart have the most enlightened managers in the mainframe world or did they just not have a clue what was going on.
I suspect the latter, it’s unlikely Walmart’s managers are any different from anyone else’s.


A very interesting red book with lots of detailed information although I kept seeing the word 'service'. Not a word one would normally associate with Walmart.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
william janulin
2017-10-05 17:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
What goes around comes around.


On Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:50 AM, "Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)" <***@FISERV.COM> wrote:


As an "Assembler" guy.....that's great news !!!!!

Thanks,

Tom Savor


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Beverly Caldwell
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 11:47 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Here's a horrifying thought for all you management types....

From an IBM red book, the one which describes Walmart’s adventures with CICS in a cloud.

From the section which describes the activities of the CICS and z/OS systems programmers:


“The traditional role of systems programmers over time became focused on system administration functions. But, to extend the capabilities of CICS, the old-school, multi-role technician must reemerge and embrace the latest technologies”


Well some of us never actually went away.


But wait, there’s more. It gets worse. Further on in the same article there’s talk of:

“Selecting HLASM and COBOL as service development languages.”

Programming, Jim? *Assembler* language programming? I don’t think we need any of *that* here.


What I would like to know is where were all the managers while all this programming was going on. Does Walmart have the most enlightened managers in the mainframe world or did they just not have a clue what was going on.
I suspect the latter, it’s unlikely Walmart’s managers are any different from anyone else’s.


A very interesting red book with lots of detailed information although I kept seeing the word 'service'. Not a word one would normally associate with Walmart.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
scott Ford
2017-10-05 23:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Beverly,

Not surprising, a lot of manglers don't have a clue what a real systems
programmer does or know.
Especially those who only know Windoze...

I have z/OS customers who can't install simple software without us holding
their hand and doing there work for them.

Sorry for the rant, been a day.

Scott

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 1:21 PM william janulin <
Post by william janulin
What goes around comes around.
On Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:50 AM, "Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)" <
As an "Assembler" guy.....that's great news !!!!!
Thanks,
Tom Savor
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Beverly Caldwell
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 11:47 AM
Subject: Here's a horrifying thought for all you management types....
From an IBM red book, the one which describes Walmart’s adventures with CICS in a cloud.
“The traditional role of systems programmers over time became focused on
system administration functions. But, to extend the capabilities of CICS,
the old-school, multi-role technician must reemerge and embrace the latest
technologies”
Well some of us never actually went away.
“Selecting HLASM and COBOL as service development languages.”
Programming, Jim? *Assembler* language programming? I don’t think we need
any of *that* here.
What I would like to know is where were all the managers while all this
programming was going on. Does Walmart have the most enlightened managers
in the mainframe world or did they just not have a clue what was going on.
I suspect the latter, it’s unlikely Walmart’s managers are any different
from anyone else’s.
A very interesting red book with lots of detailed information although I
kept seeing the word 'service'. Not a word one would normally associate
with Walmart.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
John McKown
2017-10-05 23:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by scott Ford
Beverly,
Not surprising, a lot of manglers don't have a clue what a real systems
programmer does or know.
Especially those who only know Windoze...
I have z/OS customers who can't install simple software without us holding
their hand and doing there work for them.
​Yeah, my boss got a response to the "possible sysprog opening" I posted.
The guy didn't know the difference between IEBGENER and IEBCOPY.​
Post by scott Ford
Sorry for the rant, been a day.
Scott
--
*L'Shanah Tovah Tikatevu*

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Clark Morris
2017-10-06 15:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[Default] On 5 Oct 2017 16:30:04 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
Post by scott Ford
Beverly,
Not surprising, a lot of manglers don't have a clue what a real systems
programmer does or know.
Especially those who only know Windoze...
I have z/OS customers who can't install simple software without us holding
their hand and doing there work for them.
?Yeah, my boss got a response to the "possible sysprog opening" I posted.
The guy didn't know the difference between IEBGENER and IEBCOPY.?
While the last systems programming job I did was 27 years ago and I
wouldn't know how to safely power on and IPL a system today (3081s
didn't have LPARs let alone HMCs) that is ridiculous. At least I know
how to play with SMF 30 records in COBOL and modify other peoples
assembler code. I am not willing to move from Nova Scotia so I am not
looking for the job although I might take short assignments.
Retirement is nice.

Clark Morris
Post by scott Ford
Sorry for the rant, been a day.
Scott
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
2017-10-06 18:53:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clark Morris
While the last systems programming job I did was 27 years ago and I
wouldn't know how to safely power on and IPL a system today (3081s
didn't have LPARs let alone HMCs) that is ridiculous. At least I know
how to play with SMF 30 records in COBOL and modify other peoples
assembler code. I am not willing to move from Nova Scotia so I am not
looking for the job although I might take short assignments.
Retirement is nice.
3081 did have service processor which then had increasing functions.

field engineering had diagnostic process that started with scoping
individual components. 3081 had components in TCMs and could no longer
(directly) scoped. For TCMs, service processors were introduced with
probes into TCMs for doing diagnostics ... and engineers had bootstrap
process starting with being able to (directly) scope/diagnose the
service processor ... which then could be used to diagnose the 3081.

3090 service processor started out was to be 4331 running customized
version of VM370 release 6 ... it was then changed to a pair of 4361.
PR/SM (LPARs) was eventually introduced for 3090 as reaction to Amdahl's
"hypervisor". Amdahl had created macrocode ... which was intermediate
370-like instructions ... and enormously easier to program than the
native machine horizontal micrcode (originaly done to the increasing
number of architecture tweaks that IBM was making). It was then used to
implementation hypervisor (virtual machine subset). 3090 took quite a
bit longer to respond to Amdahl's hypervisor (with PR/SM, LPAR) because
it had to be done in the low-level native horizontal microcode.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
scott Ford
2017-10-07 20:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Clark,


Yeah I loved NS when I was up there many years ago camping.
Cold in the winter bub..I am from the Great Lakes not much warmer.

Scott
Post by Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Post by Clark Morris
While the last systems programming job I did was 27 years ago and I
wouldn't know how to safely power on and IPL a system today (3081s
didn't have LPARs let alone HMCs) that is ridiculous. At least I know
how to play with SMF 30 records in COBOL and modify other peoples
assembler code. I am not willing to move from Nova Scotia so I am not
looking for the job although I might take short assignments.
Retirement is nice.
3081 did have service processor which then had increasing functions.
field engineering had diagnostic process that started with scoping
individual components. 3081 had components in TCMs and could no longer
(directly) scoped. For TCMs, service processors were introduced with
probes into TCMs for doing diagnostics ... and engineers had bootstrap
process starting with being able to (directly) scope/diagnose the
service processor ... which then could be used to diagnose the 3081.
3090 service processor started out was to be 4331 running customized
version of VM370 release 6 ... it was then changed to a pair of 4361.
PR/SM (LPARs) was eventually introduced for 3090 as reaction to Amdahl's
"hypervisor". Amdahl had created macrocode ... which was intermediate
370-like instructions ... and enormously easier to program than the
native machine horizontal micrcode (originaly done to the increasing
number of architecture tweaks that IBM was making). It was then used to
implementation hypervisor (virtual machine subset). 3090 took quite a
bit longer to respond to Amdahl's hypervisor (with PR/SM, LPAR) because
it had to be done in the low-level native horizontal microcode.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Loading...