Discussion:
HOD
(too old to reply)
Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
2018-05-14 08:12:52 UTC
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How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


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Richards, Robert B.
2018-05-14 09:03:20 UTC
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Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
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Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

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www.marksandspencer.com

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Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
2018-05-14 10:54:47 UTC
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Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

www.marksandspencer.com

Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.

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Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
2018-05-14 10:57:23 UTC
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Let's say the 'servers' are Windows VMs.
Would this be an acceptable approach if it were a different server OS, by any chance?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: 14 May 2018 11:56
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

www.marksandspencer.com

Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.

This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us know and then delete it from your system; you should not copy, disclose, or distribute its contents to anyone nor act in reliance on this e-mail, as this is prohibited and may be unlawful.

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Richards, Robert B.
2018-05-14 11:01:29 UTC
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No idea. None of our HOD servers are Windows-based (to my limited knowledge).

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:59 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Let's say the 'servers' are Windows VMs.
Would this be an acceptable approach if it were a different server OS, by any chance?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: 14 May 2018 11:56
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

www.marksandspencer.com

Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.

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Richards, Robert B.
2018-05-14 11:09:23 UTC
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Vignesh,

We do not have ours configured that way. We have several different started tasks running on several lpars that appear to serve different environments (UAT, CITRIX, etc.) and no load balancer being used that I am aware of. Ours can be started in at least two ways; JAVAWS at a CMD prompt and invoking a web url string.

And that is almost the end of my knowledge about HOD and my HOD guy is unavailable (at a DR test).

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:56 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

www.marksandspencer.com

Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.

This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us know and then delete it from your system; you should not copy, disclose, or distribute its contents to anyone nor act in reliance on this e-mail, as this is prohibited and may be unlawful.

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Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
2018-05-14 13:59:20 UTC
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Thanks Bob.

(Sorry to mail the whole list for a simple msg; who knows what M&S screen I might show up on for mailing a .gov domain!)

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 12:11
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Vignesh,

We do not have ours configured that way. We have several different started tasks running on several lpars that appear to serve different environments (UAT, CITRIX, etc.) and no load balancer being used that I am aware of. Ours can be started in at least two ways; JAVAWS at a CMD prompt and invoking a web url string.

And that is almost the end of my knowledge about HOD and my HOD guy is unavailable (at a DR test).

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:56 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

www.marksandspencer.com

Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.

This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us know and then delete it from your system; you should not copy, disclose, or distribute its contents to anyone nor act in reliance on this e-mail, as this is prohibited and may be unlawful.

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Craig Pace
2018-05-14 14:02:38 UTC
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Yes, you can do that, if your Load Balancer is correct configured. We ran HOD only from the Mainframe; however, we had several LPARs configured into a single "Network" LPAR using TCPIP balancing. Each environment will still have its own IP address; however, the Load Balancer will then have its own virtual IP Address. This allows you to use the virtual IP Address as your normal access and it will balance between the environments. This also allows you to connect to each environment separately as well, if needed.

When do this, keep in mind the following:

1) Each "shared" configuration must be the same. I say shared, as you can have multiple configuration on each environment. The "shared" one must be the same or you can have errors.
2) You also must either use a Server/Client install combination for this to work correctly 100% of the time. You want the software to be loaded on the server and all personal configuration files to be loaded on the client side. This prevents them from having a chance of some different settings per environment.



Thanks,


Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 06:11
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Vignesh,

We do not have ours configured that way. We have several different started tasks running on several lpars that appear to serve different environments (UAT, CITRIX, etc.) and no load balancer being used that I am aware of. Ours can be started in at least two ways; JAVAWS at a CMD prompt and invoking a web url string.

And that is almost the end of my knowledge about HOD and my HOD guy is unavailable (at a DR test).

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:56 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.marksandspencer.com&data=02%7C01%7CCraig.Pace%40FOTLINC.COM%7C93ce57cd46d74acd250b08d5b98b61b3%7C0d32279fb86a46bcaf3c48ad3cf3caf9%7C0%7C0%7C636618930718992612&sdata=1TKR%2Bc%2FDweS99tfpA0b%2FaiZSgTzQUx%2Fea%2B7Nm%2FnhmVI%3D&reserved=0

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Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
2018-05-14 16:11:27 UTC
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Thanks Craig.

"1) Each "shared" configuration must be the same. I say shared, as you can have multiple configuration on each environment. The "shared" one must be the same or you can have errors."

My question is around the server/VM cloning part.

If the servers are literally copies of the 1 server where I install & configure it, there cannot be any config drift.
Ex: Cloning server/VM 'A' to create B, C, and D (I'm renaming the hostnames to match the VM/server names of course).

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Craig Pace
Sent: Monday 14-May-2018 19:34
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Yes, you can do that, if your Load Balancer is correct configured. We ran HOD only from the Mainframe; however, we had several LPARs configured into a single "Network" LPAR using TCPIP balancing. Each environment will still have its own IP address; however, the Load Balancer will then have its own virtual IP Address. This allows you to use the virtual IP Address as your normal access and it will balance between the environments. This also allows you to connect to each environment separately as well, if needed.

When do this, keep in mind the following:

1) Each "shared" configuration must be the same. I say shared, as you can have multiple configuration on each environment. The "shared" one must be the same or you can have errors.
2) You also must either use a Server/Client install combination for this to work correctly 100% of the time. You want the software to be loaded on the server and all personal configuration files to be loaded on the client side. This prevents them from having a chance of some different settings per environment.



Thanks,


Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 06:11
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Vignesh,

We do not have ours configured that way. We have several different started tasks running on several lpars that appear to serve different environments (UAT, CITRIX, etc.) and no load balancer being used that I am aware of. Ours can be started in at least two ways; JAVAWS at a CMD prompt and invoking a web url string.

And that is almost the end of my knowledge about HOD and my HOD guy is unavailable (at a DR test).

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:56 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Thanks Bob.

Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in 1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 14 May 2018 10:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
________________________________
Unless otherwise stated above:
Marks and Spencer plc
Registered Office:
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW

Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.

Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.marksandspencer.com&data=02%7C01%7CCraig.Pace%40FOTLINC.COM%7C93ce57cd46d74acd250b08d5b98b61b3%7C0d32279fb86a46bcaf3c48ad3cf3caf9%7C0%7C0%7C636618930718992612&sdata=1TKR%2Bc%2FDweS99tfpA0b%2FaiZSgTzQUx%2Fea%2B7Nm%2FnhmVI%3D&reserved=0

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Craig Pace
2018-05-14 13:39:30 UTC
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I have not done anything with HOD since V8 but did a several different configurations and will help in any way I can.



Thanks,


Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 04:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


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Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
2018-05-14 14:00:55 UTC
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Hi Craig,

Do you think it would be worth attempting what I've described below; as far as deployment methodology goes..

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Craig Pace
Sent: 14 May 2018 14:41
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

I have not done anything with HOD since V8 but did a several different configurations and will help in any way I can.



Thanks,


Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 04:05
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: HOD

Certainly not an expert, but ask away.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOD

How'D y'all

Is there a Host OnDemand person on this mailing list, by any chance?
Want to clarify something; not too complicated a question; no follow-ups, just 1 question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
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Unless otherwise stated above:
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Registered Office:
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35 North Wharf Road
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Timothy Sipples
2018-05-15 05:48:50 UTC
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Post by Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Say there are 'n' servers that have HOD installed, and all
of them are under a load balancer, so there's a single target.
Would it work if the product was just installed and setup in
1 server, and then cloned 'n-1' times?
Let's say the 'servers' are Windows VMs. Would this be an
acceptable approach if it were a different server OS, by
any chance?
As background, there are several HOD "servers." Here's a reasonably
complete list:

1. The HTTP/HTTPS server (Web server) that delivers the Host On-Demand
applets to the user, at least in the first instance and for subsequent HOD
release updates. In principle, the HTTP/HTTPS server for HOD can be
*anything* -- it's just a set of files. Just for fun, I once tried hosting
HOD on an Apple Macintosh Quadra 700 running Linux and the Apache HTTP
Server. It worked, although that wasn't the speediest HTTP server. (It
doesn't have to be particularly speedy, though, as long as you're using the
so-called HOD "cached client.") IBM publishes a list of tested HTTP/HTTPS
servers.

2A. The Host On-Demand Service Manager, a.k.a. Host On-Demand Configuration
Server. In principle, the HOD SM/CS can run on any machine with a JVM of at
least relatively recent vintage. IBM publishes a list of tested HOD SM/CS
platforms, and for certain platforms (e.g. Windows) IBM includes an
installation program that installs an IBM-supplied JVM and sets up the HOD
SM/CS on it.

2B. The HOD Configuration Servlet, which can only be used in conjunction
with #2A. The HOD Configuration Servlet is not relevant on its own. This
servlet can, in principle, run on any application server with Java servlet
support. IBM WebSphere Application Server is an excellent choice.

3A. The target "server" system to which you're establishing a HOD terminal
emulation session or file transfer session. This target system can be
anything that supports TN3270, TN3270E, TN5250, TN5250E, Telnet, SSH, FTP,
etc., etc. Target systems span everything from z/OS mainframes to embedded
"Internet of Things" devices, and just about everything in between.

3B. HOD can connect to target systems via a proxy server. Supported proxy
server protocols include HTTP, HTTPS, SOCKS4, and SOCKS5.

4. The Host Access Client Package (HACP) Extended Edition server, recently
introduced. HACP EE provides a subset of HOD end-user functionality without
any Java on the client. HACP EE should be compatible with Apple iPads, for
example.

Now here's the really interesting fact: *all* of these HOD servers except
#3A are optional, although I'd argue that #1 is important (but not strictly
mandatory). As general "best practices" advice, you shouldn't use the HOD
servers that you don't actually need -- shouldn't even bother with them.
Moreover, when you do run particular HOD servers, the "best" place to
install/run them is generally on the same system as #3A. In particular, if
you're primarily or exclusively connecting to z/OS, then the preferred/best
place to run HOD servers, such as #1 (notably), is right on z/OS itself.
"Keep it simple" for robustness, and yet-another-distributed-server ain't
simple.

I believe your question refers primarily or entirely to #2A, the Host
On-Demand Service Manager (a.k.a. Configuration Server). If my assumption
is correct, and with that background information, here are the two answers
to your questions:

A1: Don't run the HOD SM/CS at all. If you don't run the HOD SM/CS, then
you don't have to move it, and HOD clients will store their
settings/preferences in user home directories. Those user home directories
can be on shared network drives, if desired -- and if you'd like to support
"roaming users" just as you do for other desktop/laptop applications, for
example. The HOD documentation refers to this mode of operations as the
"HTML-based model," meaning that the initial session information (default
sessions, initial keyboard layouts, etc.) is defined within the HTML
startup file(s) delivered to the client rather than fetched from the HOD
SM/CS over a separate connection. Please note that "HTML-based model" is
not the same thing as HACP EE (#4 above). In fact, the HOD HTML-based model
is the very first HOD deployment mode, tracing its roots all the way back
to the first version of HOD.

The "HTML-based model" is still my favorite way to run HOD in most
environments, as it happens. To configure the HTML-based model, use the
Deployment Wizard to generate the correct HOD startup file(s) (HTML, for
Java Web Start). Deploy that startup fileset to the HOD HTTP/HTTPS server.
Then access that Web URL from the client, and away you go.

While it's not necessarily recommended to copy the HOD directory -- the
directory that your HTTP/HTTPS server can deliver to clients -- it is
*possible* to do that, even across platforms. If you're using a z/OS
HTTP/HTTPS server then just be a little extra careful to get the
EBCDIC/ASCII configuration settings in the Web server correct, per the HOD
documentation. Or, if you don't know what you're doing, install HOD on z/OS
(without starting up the HOD SM/CS), then put the Deployment Wizard output
on z/OS in the appropriate HOD directory.

One reason why you might want to be careful about just copying stuff
without knowing what you're doing is to make sure you can still apply
service updates and version upgrades.

A2: You can probably move HOD SM/CS contents from machine to machine (and
even from OS to OS), but you have to be a little careful about that, just
as with A1.

If you only have one instance of the HOD SM/CS running, and if HOD clients
are expecting it to be available, then that's probably not going to work
well in terms of availability characteristics. Consider A1 (above), or
alternatively the "combined model" discussed in the HOD planning
documentation. The "combined model" requires access to the HOD SM/CS for a
new HOD user, once, but thereafter the HOD SM/CS can be offline without end
user service impact -- as long as you get Deployment Wizard settings
correct, that is. In particular, I believe you still have to throw a switch
(in the Deployment Wizard) to turn off HOD user startup counts, since that
counting is handled at the HOD SM/CS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
E-Mail: ***@sg.ibm.com

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Timothy Sipples
2018-05-15 06:39:24 UTC
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SCP was certainly inspired by CP/M, but m$ was not.
I don't think that's a fair characterization. Microsoft was *deeply*
"inspired" by CP/M, per the historical record. In fact, Microsoft was a
CP/M licensee and sold CP/M as part of the Microsoft SoftCard for Apple II
computers. I'd say that qualifies as "inspired." The Microsoft SoftCard
plugged into one of the slots in an Apple II (or successor, such as the
popular Apple //e), and it contained a Zilog Z80 microprocessor to run CP/M
plus some "glue" logic to wed the card (and operating system) to the Apple
II underneath.

According to Wikipedia, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen had the original
idea to "port" CP/M to the Apple II. Tim Patterson at Seattle Computer
Products (SCP) developed the original SoftCard prototype, and, later, Bill
Gates and Don Burtis joined Tim Patterson in finishing the product. The
SoftCard was Microsoft's top revenue source in 1980, and it became the #1
most popular CP/M platform.
CP/M was very similar to any DOS version. The most
important (IMHO) exception was lack of directories.
86-DOS, MS-DOS, and PC-DOS did not have subdirectories either when
initially released. It wasn't until Version 2.0 (March 8, 1983, along with
the IBM PC/XT) that MS-DOS and PC-DOS got subdirectories, inspired by
Microsoft's Xenix (UNIX) endeavors.

CP/M 2.2 (released sometime in 1979) did not include subdirectories as such
but did include 16 numbered user areas, i.e. a fixed number of pre-named
subdirectories one level deep. This feature was a direct lift from MP/M.
MS-DOS/PC-DOS Version 1.x didn't have any analogous feature.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
E-Mail: ***@sg.ibm.com

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Seymour J Metz
2018-05-15 17:45:39 UTC
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Perhaps unclear; I meant "not inspired" in the context of MS/PC-DOS, which sprang from QDOS.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Timothy Sipples <***@SG.IBM.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:40 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CONTROVERSY! z/OS UNIX: is it an enhancement or a tool of the Devil?
SCP was certainly inspired by CP/M, but m$ was not.
I don't think that's a fair characterization. Microsoft was *deeply*
"inspired" by CP/M, per the historical record. In fact, Microsoft was a
CP/M licensee and sold CP/M as part of the Microsoft SoftCard for Apple II
computers. I'd say that qualifies as "inspired." The Microsoft SoftCard
plugged into one of the slots in an Apple II (or successor, such as the
popular Apple //e), and it contained a Zilog Z80 microprocessor to run CP/M
plus some "glue" logic to wed the card (and operating system) to the Apple
II underneath.

According to Wikipedia, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen had the original
idea to "port" CP/M to the Apple II. Tim Patterson at Seattle Computer
Products (SCP) developed the original SoftCard prototype, and, later, Bill
Gates and Don Burtis joined Tim Patterson in finishing the product. The
SoftCard was Microsoft's top revenue source in 1980, and it became the #1
most popular CP/M platform.
CP/M was very similar to any DOS version. The most
important (IMHO) exception was lack of directories.
86-DOS, MS-DOS, and PC-DOS did not have subdirectories either when
initially released. It wasn't until Version 2.0 (March 8, 1983, along with
the IBM PC/XT) that MS-DOS and PC-DOS got subdirectories, inspired by
Microsoft's Xenix (UNIX) endeavors.

CP/M 2.2 (released sometime in 1979) did not include subdirectories as such
but did include 16 numbered user areas, i.e. a fixed number of pre-named
subdirectories one level deep. This feature was a direct lift from MP/M.
MS-DOS/PC-DOS Version 1.x didn't have any analogous feature.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
E-Mail: ***@sg.ibm.com

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Phil Smith III
2018-05-15 15:49:20 UTC
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OK. I'll try. Simplicity of specification. Simplicity of implementation.
Filenames are strings. Different strings should refer to different files.
Categorical imperative there. Seems…circular.
CASE(M)
....
NAME FooBar(R)
Should //STEP EXEC PGM=FOOBAR invoke that program? Why not"
How about //STEP EXEC PGM='FooBar'? Why not? How about
TSO: EXEC *(FooBar)?
Binder? I’m talking Unix going back 45 years, not USS. But yes, I’d expect
them to invoke the same program.
Would you submit or vote for an RFE that LOAD/LINK/ATTACH, BLDL, ...
be made case-insensitive?
Yes.
So it fits the definition of "tradition": The same stupid old way we've
always done it!
"Stupid" indeed. And z/OS is worse than most for inconsistency. Some
interfaces are case-sensitive; others enforce case-insensitivity.
Absolutely z/OS is horrible in this regard. So?
And ethnic diversity. Should files named in Cyrillic, Greek, ... be
treated
in a case-insensitive fashion? Imagine the implementation complexity
and documentation complexity. Should it be locale-sensitive? Should
Cyrillic filenames be case-insensitive in the Russia locale and Latin
filenames be case sensitive? And vice-versa in a Latin locale?
Well, going back to the early days of Unix, I don’t think any of this
mattered, so it’s not a defense for the design. But why would
case-sensitivity need to change across locales?
Suppose another language is newly added to the Unicode CECP. Should
characters previously considered distinct suddenly be considered equivalent
because they are upper-lower case pairs?
(Don't be Anglocentric in your answer.)
Are you suggesting that there are codepoints that appear in multiple pages
but map differently—so “a” and “O” might be the upper/lowercase versions of
the same character in Blezerbian? I respectfully disbelieve that.
Others have argued here that the filesystem should ignore diacritical
marks.
But a Hispanophone sees "año" and "ano" as two very different nouns and
would probably not approve of using them interchangably as a filename.
Those are different characters. Unicode folding is an entirely different
issue, I think.
Peter Relson, among others, has written here of "invalid" names, implying
GIGO. I disagree with quiet GIGO -- a programmer should be provided at
least a warning message on use of an "invalid" construct.
Sorry, don’t grok this point at all!



Cheers,

…phsiii


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Seymour J Metz
2018-05-15 17:30:43 UTC
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Post by Phil Smith III
Are you suggesting that there are codepoints that appear in multiple pages
but map differently
If Gil is, then he's correct.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Phil Smith III <***@AKPHS.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:50 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CONTROVERSY! z/OS UNIX: is it an enhancement or a tool of the Devil?
Post by Phil Smith III
OK. I'll try. Simplicity of specification. Simplicity of implementation.
Filenames are strings. Different strings should refer to different files.
Categorical imperative there. Seems…circular.
Post by Phil Smith III
CASE(M)
....
NAME FooBar(R)
Should //STEP EXEC PGM=FOOBAR invoke that program? Why not"
How about //STEP EXEC PGM='FooBar'? Why not? How about
TSO: EXEC *(FooBar)?
Binder? I’m talking Unix going back 45 years, not USS. But yes, I’d expect
them to invoke the same program.
Post by Phil Smith III
Would you submit or vote for an RFE that LOAD/LINK/ATTACH, BLDL, ...
be made case-insensitive?
Yes.
Post by Phil Smith III
So it fits the definition of "tradition": The same stupid old way we've
always done it!
"Stupid" indeed. And z/OS is worse than most for inconsistency. Some
interfaces are case-sensitive; others enforce case-insensitivity.
Absolutely z/OS is horrible in this regard. So?
Post by Phil Smith III
And ethnic diversity. Should files named in Cyrillic, Greek, ... be
treated
Post by Phil Smith III
in a case-insensitive fashion? Imagine the implementation complexity
and documentation complexity. Should it be locale-sensitive? Should
Cyrillic filenames be case-insensitive in the Russia locale and Latin
filenames be case sensitive? And vice-versa in a Latin locale?
Well, going back to the early days of Unix, I don’t think any of this
mattered, so it’s not a defense for the design. But why would
case-sensitivity need to change across locales?
Post by Phil Smith III
Suppose another language is newly added to the Unicode CECP. Should
characters previously considered distinct suddenly be considered equivalent
because they are upper-lower case pairs?
(Don't be Anglocentric in your answer.)
Are you suggesting that there are codepoints that appear in multiple pages
but map differently—so “a” and “O” might be the upper/lowercase versions of
the same character in Blezerbian? I respectfully disbelieve that.
Post by Phil Smith III
Others have argued here that the filesystem should ignore diacritical
marks.
Post by Phil Smith III
But a Hispanophone sees "año" and "ano" as two very different nouns and
would probably not approve of using them interchangably as a filename.
Those are different characters. Unicode folding is an entirely different
issue, I think.
Post by Phil Smith III
Peter Relson, among others, has written here of "invalid" names, implying
GIGO. I disagree with quiet GIGO -- a programmer should be provided at
least a warning message on use of an "invalid" construct.
Sorry, don’t grok this point at all!



Cheers,

…phsiii


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Paul Gilmartin
2018-05-15 18:32:38 UTC
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Would you submit or vote for an RFE that LOAD/LINK/ATTACH, BLDL, ...
be made case-insensitive?
Yes.
I won't vote for it, but please keep this list updated on how it plays out.

-- gil

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