Discussion:
Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
(too old to reply)
Farley, Peter x23353
2017-08-09 13:11:41 UTC
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As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We need to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex by any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which one may help, if any.

I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any systems-level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have to request that information from the performance team. I am just an application programmer trying to track information down to aid an application project.

TIA for any assistance you can provide.

Peter
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John McKown
2017-08-09 13:23:33 UTC
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Simple answer: NO, there is no SMF tracking of the LOAD functionality in
z/OS.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We need
to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex by
any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which one
may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems-level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have to
request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an
application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
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Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
2017-08-09 13:33:43 UTC
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This has been discussed not so long ago, I think. I remember I mentioned my LLA exits.

Kees.
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: 09 August, 2017 15:25
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Simple answer: NO, there is no SMF tracking of the LOAD functionality in
z/OS.
On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We
need
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex
by
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which
one
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems-level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have
to
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an
application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
--
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
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confidential.
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an
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Post by Farley, Peter x23353
representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
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Post by Farley, Peter x23353
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Farley, Peter x23353
2017-08-09 14:36:59 UTC
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Thank you all for the prompt replies. Much appreciated.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 9:34 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

This has been discussed not so long ago, I think. I remember I mentioned my LLA exits.

Kees.
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: 09 August, 2017 15:25
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Simple answer: NO, there is no SMF tracking of the LOAD functionality in
z/OS.
On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We
need
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex
by
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which
one
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems-level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have
to
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an
application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


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Charles Mills
2017-08-09 13:24:13 UTC
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No. SMF 30 subtype 5 (?) has the jobstep program name, the USS program name
if any, and the program in the step that used the most CPU. That last field
is occasionally useful for situations such as yours.

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:13 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We need
to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex by
any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which one may
help, if any.

I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems-level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have to
request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an
application project.

TIA for any assistance you can provide.

Peter
--


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized
representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
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and delete the message and any attachments from your system.

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Lizette Koehler
2017-08-09 14:48:38 UTC
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There was a product you could purchase called SoftAudit. It could do some of
what you are looking for (If I remember correctly)

The other options some shops took, was having their programs issue a WTO
indicating what module called what. Probably well past what you could work with
at this point.

Another option was to create a calling program, that would cut an user SMF
record to collect some of this data.


Where you are at, you might need to purchase a product, like SoftAudit, that
could do some of this analysis.

I think it would be very difficult to actually identify anything that is
executed from a LINK, XCTL, or LOAD function. Very little in SMF other than the
pgmname that can be captured. If you are asking - Can I identify when a
subroutine SUBA is called - probably not. If you want to know when MAINA is
used, probably yes


What you could do is download from CBTTAPE.ORG the utility DAF (Dataset Audit
Facility).
File # 094 DAF from Mike Cleary - Dataset Audit Facility

It can read all SMF Data and provide summary information based on

Program Name
Job Name
Date
DSN

And so forth.

I used it recently to see anything touching a specific library or program name.
It was very helpful.

You can see if DAF can help.

Hope that helps.

Lizette
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We need to
know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex by any
batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which one may
help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any systems-
level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have to request that
information from the performance team. I am just an application programmer
trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
--
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Farley, Peter x23353
2017-08-09 15:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.

These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually used. That also only answers the question of usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.

Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.

Thanks again for your prompt reply.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:50 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

There was a product you could purchase called SoftAudit. It could do some of what you are looking for (If I remember correctly)

The other options some shops took, was having their programs issue a WTO indicating what module called what. Probably well past what you could work with at this point.

Another option was to create a calling program, that would cut an user SMF record to collect some of this data.


Where you are at, you might need to purchase a product, like SoftAudit, that could do some of this analysis.

I think it would be very difficult to actually identify anything that is executed from a LINK, XCTL, or LOAD function. Very little in SMF other than the pgmname that can be captured. If you are asking - Can I identify when a subroutine SUBA is called - probably not. If you want to know when MAINA is used, probably yes


What you could do is download from CBTTAPE.ORG the utility DAF (Dataset Audit Facility).
File # 094 DAF from Mike Cleary - Dataset Audit Facility

It can read all SMF Data and provide summary information based on

Program Name
Job Name
Date
DSN

And so forth.

I used it recently to see anything touching a specific library or program name.
It was very helpful.

You can see if DAF can help.

Hope that helps.

Lizette
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We
need to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the
sysplex by any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to
know which one may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems- level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have
to request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.

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Jousma, David
2017-08-09 15:23:19 UTC
Permalink
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Im not aware of any method using existing system services to track execution of subroutines below PGM=. It would certainly be helpful to us, as we have (I'm) many old application programs that pollute our system, but no one knows if they are in use or not. This is becoming somewhat of a issue for us as we are starting the migration to EC V6.1, and are forced to minimally convert/recompile OS VS programs, and some VS Cobol II. I am pretty sure of the thousands of these we have, there is a large percentage that are not in use. Oh well, that will be the problem for the application teams to figure out I guess. ;)

_________________________________________________________________
Dave Jousma
Manager Mainframe Engineering, Assistant Vice President
***@53.com
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.2717


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 11:02 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL

Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.

These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually used. That also only answers the question of usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.

Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.

Thanks again for your prompt reply.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:50 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

There was a product you could purchase called SoftAudit. It could do some of what you are looking for (If I remember correctly)

The other options some shops took, was having their programs issue a WTO indicating what module called what. Probably well past what you could work with at this point.

Another option was to create a calling program, that would cut an user SMF record to collect some of this data.


Where you are at, you might need to purchase a product, like SoftAudit, that could do some of this analysis.

I think it would be very difficult to actually identify anything that is executed from a LINK, XCTL, or LOAD function. Very little in SMF other than the pgmname that can be captured. If you are asking - Can I identify when a subroutine SUBA is called - probably not. If you want to know when MAINA is used, probably yes


What you could do is download from CBTTAPE.ORG the utility DAF (Dataset Audit Facility).
File # 094 DAF from Mike Cleary - Dataset Audit Facility

It can read all SMF Data and provide summary information based on

Program Name
Job Name
Date
DSN

And so forth.

I used it recently to see anything touching a specific library or program name.
It was very helpful.

You can see if DAF can help.

Hope that helps.

Lizette
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We
need to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the
sysplex by any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to
know which one may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems- level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have
to request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.

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Clark Morris
2017-08-09 16:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[Default] On 9 Aug 2017 08:23:19 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
Post by Jousma, David
Im not aware of any method using existing system services to track execution of subroutines below PGM=. It would certainly be helpful to us, as we have (I'm) many old application programs that pollute our system, but no one knows if they are in use or not. This is becoming somewhat of a issue for us as we are starting the migration to EC V6.1, and are forced to minimally convert/recompile OS VS programs, and some VS Cobol II. I am pretty sure of the thousands of these we have, there is a large percentage that are not in use. Oh well, that will be the problem for the application teams to figure out I guess. ;)
In the distant (over 25 years ago), I did long running GTF traces for
LOAD, LINK and ATTACH and analyzed the results. Also if all of the
subroutines are CALLed using CALL 'module-name' the source can be
parsed to detect this using programs written in language of choice
including COBOL. If called by the COBOL construct CALL data-name or
the equivalent in other languages, this condition can at least be
detected.

Clark Morris
Post by Jousma, David
_________________________________________________________________
Dave Jousma
Manager Mainframe Engineering, Assistant Vice President
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.2717
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.
These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually used. That also only answers the question of usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.
Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.
Thanks again for your prompt reply.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
There was a product you could purchase called SoftAudit. It could do some of what you are looking for (If I remember correctly)
The other options some shops took, was having their programs issue a WTO indicating what module called what. Probably well past what you could work with at this point.
Another option was to create a calling program, that would cut an user SMF record to collect some of this data.
Where you are at, you might need to purchase a product, like SoftAudit, that could do some of this analysis.
I think it would be very difficult to actually identify anything that is executed from a LINK, XCTL, or LOAD function. Very little in SMF other than the pgmname that can be captured. If you are asking - Can I identify when a subroutine SUBA is called - probably not. If you want to know when MAINA is used, probably yes
What you could do is download from CBTTAPE.ORG the utility DAF (Dataset Audit Facility).
File # 094 DAF from Mike Cleary - Dataset Audit Facility
It can read all SMF Data and provide summary information based on
Program Name
Job Name
Date
DSN
And so forth.
I used it recently to see anything touching a specific library or program name.
It was very helpful.
You can see if DAF can help.
Hope that helps.
Lizette
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We
need to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the
sysplex by any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to
know which one may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems- level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have
to request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
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Gerard Schildberger
2017-08-09 23:38:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clark Morris
[Default] On 9 Aug 2017 08:23:19 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
Post by Jousma, David
Im not aware of any method using existing system services to track execution of subroutines below PGM=. It would certainly be helpful to us, as we have (I'm) many old application programs that pollute our system, but no one knows if they are in use or not. This is becoming somewhat of a issue for us as we are starting the migration to EC V6.1, and are forced to minimally convert/recompile OS VS programs, and some VS Cobol II. I am pretty sure of the thousands of these we have, there is a large percentage that are not in use. Oh well, that will be the problem for the application teams to figure out I guess. ;)
In the distant (over 25 years ago), I did long running GTF traces for
LOAD, LINK and ATTACH and analyzed the results. Also if all of the
subroutines are CALLed using CALL 'module-name' the source can be
parsed to detect this using programs written in language of choice
including COBOL. If called by the COBOL construct CALL data-name or
the equivalent in other languages, this condition can at least be
detected.
Clark Morris
Post by Jousma, David
_________________________________________________________________
Dave Jousma
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 11:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.
These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually used. That also only answers the question of usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.
Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.
Thanks again for your prompt reply.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
There was a product you could purchase called SoftAudit. It could do some of what you are looking for (If I remember correctly)
The other options some shops took, was having their programs issue a WTO indicating what module called what. Probably well past what you could work with at this point.
Another option was to create a calling program, that would cut an user SMF record to collect some of this data.
Where you are at, you might need to purchase a product, like SoftAudit, that could do some of this analysis.
I think it would be very difficult to actually identify anything that is executed from a LINK, XCTL, or LOAD function. Very little in SMF other than the pgmname that can be captured. If you are asking - Can I identify when a subroutine SUBA is called - probably not. If you want to know when MAINA is used, probably yes
What you could do is download from CBTTAPE.ORG the utility DAF (Dataset Audit Facility).
File # 094 DAF from Mike Cleary - Dataset Audit Facility
It can read all SMF Data and provide summary information based on
Program Name
Job Name
Date
DSN
And so forth.
I used it recently to see anything touching a specific library or program name.
It was very helpful.
You can see if DAF can help.
Hope that helps.
Lizette
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN> >> Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We
need to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the
sysplex by any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to
know which one may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any
systems- level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have
to request that information from the performance team. I am just an
application programmer trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
Yes, I was just about to suggest using GTF trace for those three particular
SVCs, plus there was a fourth SVC. Perhaps XCTL?. It does generate a
whole bunch of events, and if ya have it enabled for (say) a whole day
[... or week], then ya got a bunch of data, furrrr shurrre.
Expect a minor impact. How minor? Your mileage may vary.
_______________________________________________________ Gerard Schildberger
retired mainframer
2017-08-09 17:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the organization, ask
the people who can run DAF for what you need and let them sanitize the
output for you.

Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in question
is not too large and you can convince the security admins to help, you could
create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log. It wouldn't
tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which library was
being accessed by which job step.

For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use, recreate
the libraries without the members. As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likely
unused.
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am prohibited
from running
Post by Charles Mills
DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while no doubt useful to
others is not
Post by Charles Mills
much use to me here.
These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we are
not sure of
Post by Charles Mills
the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will DISPLAY
identifying
Post by Charles Mills
information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading the SYSOUT archive
extensively to
Post by Charles Mills
determine whether they were ever actually used. That also only answers
the question of
Post by Charles Mills
usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an issue
if actual usage is
Post by Charles Mills
(for instance) yearly or less often.
Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part of
deciding whether we
Post by Charles Mills
need to use the tedious path or not.
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Farley, Peter x23353
2017-08-09 18:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Yes it is important to the organization, but since apparently no SMF record has this information for dynamically LOADed programs there is no real point to asking for DAF or any other SMF reporting tool to be used.

Knowing the module name loaded is kind of the point - that's what we need to know. There are very few application load libraries but many thousands and more of programs and more than that in jobs using those programs all day long and all night long.

Not having any keys to the system programmer kingdom I would not have any access to a test system even if I knew it existed. And a test system would probably not be very much help anyway due to the large number of potential main-program users of the subroutines that would need to be individually tested one at a time. This is a need to get LOAD information for several shop-wide utility subroutines potentially used across the enterprise. It is a needle-in-a-haystack problem to find the one place that a seldom-used but possibly critical utility routine is actually used at run time. Sometimes actual use of a utility routine is data dependent, and you may or may not have the data available to drive particular program usage at any given time.

As several fictional characters in the entertainment world have opined, "It's complicated".

Having LOADed program statistics in SMF historical data would, of course, solve the problem immediately, but we don't have those.

Thanks for the suggestions and for trying to help. Appreciated.

Peter
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the organization, ask the people who can run DAF for what you need and let them sanitize the output for you.
Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in question is not too large and you can convince the security admins to help, you could create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log. It wouldn't tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which library was being accessed by which job step.
For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use, recreate the libraries without the members. As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likely unused.
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am
prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while
no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.
These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we
are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will
DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading
the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually
used. That also only answers the question of
usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an
issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.
Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part
of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.
--

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Edward Gould
2017-08-09 20:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by retired mainframer
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the organization, ask
the people who can run DAF for what you need and let them sanitize the
output for you.
Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in question
is not too large and you can convince the security admins to help, you could
create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log. It wouldn't
tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which library was
being accessed by which job step.
For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use, recreate
the libraries without the members. As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likely
unused.
I would like to hear from our RACF retired person on this.
I looked at this many years ago and the answer I got back from IBM was NO it will not show dynamically loaded programs.
I certainly would like this to be yes, but I can’t see how RACF could do it. I understand how they get the pgm=scan to be logged, but after that any dynamically load program is beyond (AFAIK) RACF capability.
Softaudit says it can do it, they would have to front end the SVC.


Ed
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Joel C. Ewing
2017-08-10 15:16:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
When there are only specific load modules in specific libraries for
which tracking is needed, there IS an approach that does not require any
fancy new measurement tools or software, but does require cooperation
from the RACF administrator. It is possible to set up RACF Program
profiles specific to the load modules and libraries in question, not to
restrict access to the load modules, but to allow the enabling of RACF
auditing of all access to the modules, which results in generation of
RACF SMF records when access occurs. It's been some time since I've
done this (for some modules that were an issue during Y2K remediation),
but I'm pretty sure RACF auditing can be set to cut a record for any
module access, initial program load or dynamic fetch. Those RACF SMF
records can be extracted and accumulated for what is deemed a sufficient
period of time. Although not elegant, RACF also includes standard
reporting tools that will format and list information from the RACF SMF
records.

You will of course have to make a judgment of how long a period (days,
months, years) RACF SMF data must continue to be collected and analyzed
before there is a high confidence all important references have been
occurred and been recorded.

If RACF Program profiles are not already in use at the installation, one
must of course be careful to set things up properly to preserve existing
default access before enabling.
Joel C. Ewing
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
Yes it is important to the organization, but since apparently no SMF record has this information for dynamically LOADed programs there is no real point to asking for DAF or any other SMF reporting tool to be used.
Knowing the module name loaded is kind of the point - that's what we need to know. There are very few application load libraries but many thousands and more of programs and more than that in jobs using those programs all day long and all night long.
Not having any keys to the system programmer kingdom I would not have any access to a test system even if I knew it existed. And a test system would probably not be very much help anyway due to the large number of potential main-program users of the subroutines that would need to be individually tested one at a time. This is a need to get LOAD information for several shop-wide utility subroutines potentially used across the enterprise. It is a needle-in-a-haystack problem to find the one place that a seldom-used but possibly critical utility routine is actually used at run time. Sometimes actual use of a utility routine is data dependent, and you may or may not have the data available to drive particular program usage at any given time.
As several fictional characters in the entertainment world have opined, "It's complicated".
Having LOADed program statistics in SMF historical data would, of course, solve the problem immediately, but we don't have those.
Thanks for the suggestions and for trying to help. Appreciated.
Peter
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the organization, ask the people who can run DAF for what you need and let them sanitize the output for you.
Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in question is not too large and you can convince the security admins to help, you could create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log. It wouldn't tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which library was being accessed by which job step.
For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use, recreate the libraries without the members. As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likely unused.
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am
prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while
no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.
These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we
are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will
DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading
the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually
used. That also only answers the question of
usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an
issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.
Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part
of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.
--
--
Joel C. Ewing, Bentonville, AR ***@acm.org

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Farley, Peter x23353
2017-08-10 17:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks Joel, I think someone else also suggested a similar approach.

We're considering the alternatives but will likely not use a fee-based commercial product due to budget constraints.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel C. Ewing
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:18 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

When there are only specific load modules in specific libraries for
which tracking is needed, there IS an approach that does not require any
fancy new measurement tools or software, but does require cooperation
from the RACF administrator. It is possible to set up RACF Program
profiles specific to the load modules and libraries in question, not to
restrict access to the load modules, but to allow the enabling of RACF
auditing of all access to the modules, which results in generation of
RACF SMF records when access occurs. It's been some time since I've
done this (for some modules that were an issue during Y2K remediation),
but I'm pretty sure RACF auditing can be set to cut a record for any
module access, initial program load or dynamic fetch. Those RACF SMF
records can be extracted and accumulated for what is deemed a sufficient
period of time. Although not elegant, RACF also includes standard
reporting tools that will format and list information from the RACF SMF
records.

You will of course have to make a judgment of how long a period (days,
months, years) RACF SMF data must continue to be collected and analyzed
before there is a high confidence all important references have been
occurred and been recorded.

If RACF Program profiles are not already in use at the installation, one
must of course be careful to set things up properly to preserve existing
default access before enabling.
Joel C. Ewing
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
Yes it is important to the organization, but since apparently no SMF record has this information for dynamically LOADed programs there is no real point to asking for DAF or any other SMF reporting tool to be used.
Knowing the module name loaded is kind of the point - that's what we need to know. There are very few application load libraries but many thousands and more of programs and more than that in jobs using those programs all day long and all night long.
Not having any keys to the system programmer kingdom I would not have any access to a test system even if I knew it existed. And a test system would probably not be very much help anyway due to the large number of potential main-program users of the subroutines that would need to be individually tested one at a time. This is a need to get LOAD information for several shop-wide utility subroutines potentially used across the enterprise. It is a needle-in-a-haystack problem to find the one place that a seldom-used but possibly critical utility routine is actually used at run time. Sometimes actual use of a utility routine is data dependent, and you may or may not have the data available to drive particular program usage at any given time.
As several fictional characters in the entertainment world have opined, "It's complicated".
Having LOADed program statistics in SMF historical data would, of course, solve the problem immediately, but we don't have those.
Thanks for the suggestions and for trying to help. Appreciated.
Peter
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the organization, ask the people who can run DAF for what you need and let them sanitize the output for you.
Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in question is not too large and you can convince the security admins to help, you could create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log. It wouldn't tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which library was being accessed by which job step.
For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use, recreate the libraries without the members. As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likely unused.
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Unfortunately I have no access to any SMF data here and I am
prohibited from running DCOLLECT for myself by security rules, so DAF while
no doubt useful to others is not much use to me here.
These are old dynamically LOADed and called COBOL subroutines that we
are not sure of the actual usage. If they ever do get LOADed and called they will
DISPLAY identifying information in SYSOUT, but that then requires reading
the SYSOUT archive extensively to determine whether they were ever actually
used. That also only answers the question of
usage for as far back as the SYSOUT archive holds, which can be an
issue if actual usage is (for instance) yearly or less often.
Archive scanning is tedious but doable. My initial request was part
of deciding whether we need to use the tedious path or not.
--
--
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.


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Leon Trafalsk
2017-08-09 15:29:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I have used MFM (Module Fetch Monitor) previously. This creates a TRACE
file (not SMF) however it had proved itself to be very useful.
It was obtained by a separate (No Charge) agreement from IBM. This
basically uses an LLA exit to capture the information required.

There was a share presentation on this in 2001.

regards
Leon
Post by Lizette Koehler
There was a product you could purchase called SoftAudit. It could do some of
what you are looking for (If I remember correctly)
The other options some shops took, was having their programs issue a WTO
indicating what module called what. Probably well past what you could work with
at this point.
Another option was to create a calling program, that would cut an user SMF
record to collect some of this data.
Where you are at, you might need to purchase a product, like SoftAudit, that
could do some of this analysis.
I think it would be very difficult to actually identify anything that is
executed from a LINK, XCTL, or LOAD function. Very little in SMF other than the
pgmname that can be captured. If you are asking - Can I identify when a
subroutine SUBA is called - probably not. If you want to know when MAINA is
used, probably yes
What you could do is download from CBTTAPE.ORG the utility DAF (Dataset Audit
Facility).
File # 094 DAF from Mike Cleary - Dataset Audit Facility
It can read all SMF Data and provide summary information based on
Program Name
Job Name
Date
DSN
And so forth.
I used it recently to see anything touching a specific library or program name.
It was very helpful.
You can see if DAF can help.
Hope that helps.
Lizette
Post by Charles Mills
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We need to
know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex by any
batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which one may
help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any systems-
level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have to request that
information from the performance team. I am just an application programmer
trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
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Gord Tomlin
2017-08-09 15:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
As the subject says, are there any such SMF statistics available? We need to know if certain subroutines are ever LOADed anywhere in the sysplex by any batch program. We do collect SMF data, but I need to know which one may help, if any.
I am not the systems programmer here, so I do not have access to any systems-level SMF parameter information or operator commands, I have to request that information from the performance team. I am just an application programmer trying to track information down to aid an application project.
TIA for any assistance you can provide.
Peter
Shameless plug: eventACTION's Reference Tracker component will collect
that information for you.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507

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Charles Mills
2017-08-09 19:09:58 UTC
Permalink
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When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likelyunused
At least not until year-end. <g>


CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity.
null

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Charles Mills
2017-08-09 20:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Edward Gould
Softaudit says it can do it, they would have to front end the SVC.
I believe they do or did. 



CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity.
Post by Edward Gould
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the organization, ask
the people who can run DAF for what you need and let them sanitize the
output for you.
Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in question
is not too large and you can convince the security admins to help, you could
create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log.  It wouldn't
tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which library was
being accessed by which job step.
For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use, recreate
the libraries without the members.  As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are likely
unused.
I would like to hear from our RACF retired person on this.
I looked at this many years ago and the answer I got back from IBM was NO it will not show dynamically loaded programs.
I certainly would like this to be yes, but I can’t see how RACF could do it. I understand how they get the pgm=scan to be logged, but after that any dynamically load program is beyond (AFAIK) RACF capability.
Softaudit says it can do it, they would have to front end the SVC.


Ed
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Nims,Alva John , Al
2017-08-09 22:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SoftAudit is now "IBM Tivoli License Compliance Manager for z/OS" after IBM acquired it.

Al Nims
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298
@Home

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 4:35 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?
Post by Edward Gould
Softaudit says it can do it, they would have to front end the SVC.
I believe they do or did. 



CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity.
Post by Edward Gould
If the problem you are trying to solve is important to the
organization, ask the people who can run DAF for what you need and let
them sanitize the output for you.
Alternately, if the number of libraries containing the modules in
question is not too large and you can convince the security admins to
help, you could create dataset profiles for the libraries in WARNING mode with access NONE.
Every load would then generate a message in the system log.  It
wouldn't tell you which module was loaded but it would tell you which
library was being accessed by which job step.
For a brute force method, if you have a test system you can use,
recreate the libraries without the members.  As each LOAD fails, add that member.
When the jobs finally run successfully, any members not added are
likely unused.
I would like to hear from our RACF retired person on this.
I looked at this many years ago and the answer I got back from IBM was NO it will not show dynamically loaded programs.
I certainly would like this to be yes, but I can’t see how RACF could do it. I understand how they get the pgm=scan to be logged, but after that any dynamically load program is beyond (AFAIK) RACF capability.
Softaudit says it can do it, they would have to front end the SVC.


Ed
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Edward Gould
2017-08-10 12:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Mills
Post by Edward Gould
Softaudit says it can do it, they would have to front end the SVC.
I believe they do or did.
Then I would suggest you look elsewhere. Back in Y2K era a package was bought over my objections that did that very same thing front end the SVC. I raised my voice in protest and was ignore.
We installed the package and when the system got busy on Monday morning all hell broke loose. DB2 went bananas and users everywhere were yelling about the time and dates on their reports.
I suggested firmly that we back the product out and basically was told to leave the room. The squabbled in a meeting room for two hours while our system was down. The door opened and everyone followed out. The VP came over to me and he told me to de install the product. A day or two later I was talking to one of the participants in the closed door meeting. Early on it was decided to de-install. The rest of the time was finger pointing as to who was at fault and who was going to pay for the software and the outage.

Ed
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Peter Relson
2017-08-10 11:50:59 UTC
Permalink
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You could also write something of your own, as of z/OS 2.2, using the
CSVFETCH exit which was developed specifically to help get products out of
front-ending the contents supervisor SVC's.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Farley, Peter x23353
2017-08-10 17:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks for the suggestion Peter, but we are currently only at V2.1 and I don't know when we will next be upgrading or to what version.

Is that feature going to be (or has been?) back-ported to V2.1?

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Relson
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 7:52 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Any SMF statistics available for LOAD of a program?

You could also write something of your own, as of z/OS 2.2, using the
CSVFETCH exit which was developed specifically to help get products out of
front-ending the contents supervisor SVC's.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design
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Rob Barbour
2017-08-10 17:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Peter,

There is a product called P-Tracker that will give you that
information. Since it "see's" everything loaded it can give you the
program and call sequences as well as when, who, where, it was
loaded. People use this for asset management, but programmers use it
to determine call sequences (like in Y2K and Euro to find program and
subroutine usage, where, etc).

For more info see www.esaigroup.com/products/ptracker.htm
<http://www.esaigroup.com/products/ptracker.htm>

P.S. I am not sure if SoftAudit is marketed any more.
--
Best Regards,
Rob Barbour
Enterprise Systems Associates, Inc ("ESAi")
UCF Research Park
3259 Progress Drive
Orlando, Florida 32826 USA
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Peter Relson
2017-08-11 11:21:45 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Farley, Peter x23353
Is that feature going to be (or has been?) back-ported to V2.1?
No.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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