Discussion:
SORTLIB DD
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-06-05 16:31:54 UTC
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We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with

IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063

IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into

SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK

Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
***@sce.com<mailto:***@sce.com>


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Rugen, Len
2018-06-05 16:50:40 UTC
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If both those libraries have contents, I'd try with just SYS1.SORTLIB. It fails quickly doesn't it?

Based on my interpretation of https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.icei100/lp.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:32 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SORTLIB DD

We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with

IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063

IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into

SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK

Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
***@sce.com<mailto:***@sce.com>


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Lizette Koehler
2018-06-05 16:52:22 UTC
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If you were not aware, there is the DFSORT HOTLINE that can answer all types of
DFSORT questions

***@us.ibm.com

No PMR Needed. Questions answered.

Lizette
Post by Rugen, Len
-----Original Message-----
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:32 AM
Subject: SORTLIB DD
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has
been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised
the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working
example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to?
SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into
a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-06-05 17:17:32 UTC
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Done, but got this reply:

"I am out of the office until 08/20/2018.

"The new policy and procedures recommend that you use the following processes to assist you with your DFSORT questions.
· General Q&A concerns please open a problem ticket with DFSMS Q&A at www.ibm.com/support.
· Migration Assistance please contact the Louis Hanna at the System Migration Project Office (SMPO) - ***@us.ibm.com
· For all other Performance/Defect problems please open a problem ticket with Level 2 at www.ibm.com/support.

"NOTE: This Out-Of-Office Notification will be sent out till August 20th. At that time the Hotline will be shutdown and the message will no longer be received."


.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:53 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD

If you were not aware, there is the DFSORT HOTLINE that can answer all types of DFSORT questions

***@us.ibm.com

No PMR Needed. Questions answered.

Lizette
Post by Rugen, Len
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:32 AM
Subject: SORTLIB DD
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space.
It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs,
so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it
fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000
USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no
working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to?
SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag
them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
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Charles Mills
2018-06-05 17:23:01 UTC
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Wonderful. Another "improvement."

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:17 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD

Done, but got this reply:

"I am out of the office until 08/20/2018.

"The new policy and procedures recommend that you use the following processes to assist you with your DFSORT questions.
· General Q&A concerns please open a problem ticket with DFSMS Q&A at www.ibm.com/support.
· Migration Assistance please contact the Louis Hanna at the System Migration Project Office (SMPO) - ***@us.ibm.com
· For all other Performance/Defect problems please open a problem ticket with Level 2 at www.ibm.com/support.

"NOTE: This Out-Of-Office Notification will be sent out till August 20th. At that time the Hotline will be shutdown and the message will no longer be received."

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Lizette Koehler
2018-06-05 21:05:44 UTC
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I did not know that. I will update my notes

Thanks

Lizette
Post by Rugen, Len
-----Original Message-----
Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD
Wonderful. Another "improvement."
Charles
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD
"I am out of the office until 08/20/2018.
"The new policy and procedures recommend that you use the following processes
to assist you with your DFSORT questions.
· General Q&A concerns please open a problem ticket with DFSMS Q&A at www.ibm.com/support.
· Migration Assistance please contact the Louis Hanna at the System Migration
problems please open a problem ticket with Level 2 at www.ibm.com/support.
"NOTE: This Out-Of-Office Notification will be sent out till August 20th. At
that time the Hotline will be shutdown and the message will no longer be
received."
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Michael Babcock
2018-06-05 23:39:53 UTC
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Do you use dynamic sortwork space? If so what’s the Dynspace set to?
Ours defaults to 5 but I’ve had to override that using 30 before.
Post by Lizette Koehler
I did not know that. I will update my notes
Thanks
Lizette
Post by Rugen, Len
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of
Post by Rugen, Len
Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD
Wonderful. Another "improvement."
Charles
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD
"I am out of the office until 08/20/2018.
"The new policy and procedures recommend that you use the following
processes
Post by Rugen, Len
to assist you with your DFSORT questions.
· General Q&A concerns please open a problem ticket with DFSMS Q&A at
www.ibm.com/support.
· Migration Assistance please contact the Louis Hanna at the System
Migration
Performance/Defect
Post by Rugen, Len
problems please open a problem ticket with Level 2 at
www.ibm.com/support.
Post by Rugen, Len
"NOTE: This Out-Of-Office Notification will be sent out till August
20th. At
Post by Rugen, Len
that time the Hotline will be shutdown and the message will no longer be
received."
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email to
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Sri h Kolusu
2018-06-05 17:45:38 UTC
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Robinson,

Generally you would point SORTLIB to SYS1.SORTLIB

//SORTLIB DD DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.SORTLIB

Most of the blockset modules can be run with just SICELINK and SORTLPA
which would be in the LPA

You would only need SORTLIB to use Conventional technique modules of DFSORT
and you just need to pass that alone to SORTLIB dd
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space.
Are these DB2 invoked utility sorts?
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD.
Ideally I wouldn't prefer using tape sort works, but I would look as to
what the user is doing that needs such huge SORTWK space. May be the job
can fine tuned?

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation

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R.S.
2018-06-07 09:49:07 UTC
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Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via
OPTION DYNALLOC
Don't use tapes for sortwork

BTW:
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?


My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-06-07 18:14:20 UTC
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Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD

Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork

BTW:
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?


My €0.02

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
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PINION, RICHARD W.
2018-06-07 18:17:18 UTC
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Yes I know DFSORT, but many moons ago, we used SYNCSORT's tape sort, which was expressly for this type of problem.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:14 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD

[External Email]

Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD

Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork

BTW:
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?


My €0.02

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space.
It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs,
so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it
fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000
USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no
working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD
SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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David Betten
2018-06-07 18:43:50 UTC
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Just a few thoughts on ways you might be able to reduce the sort work
requirement.

Since the input is on tape, do we know if DFSORT is getting accurate file
size information? Do you see DFSORT messages in the output like UNKNOWN
FILE SIZE or INTERMEDIATE MERGE...?
The reason I ask is that if DFSORT doesn't know the file size or
incorrectly estimates, it can under allocate virtual storage which makes
the sort very inefficient and causes an increase in sort work space
requirements.


Another option to consider would be splitting the input file, sorting each
segment separately, then merging the outputs. Not ideal, but still might
run faster than a single large sort using tape sort work.

If you could post the DFSORT messages from the job, we might be able to
offer some better suggestions.


Have a nice day,
Dave Betten
z/OS Performance Specialist
Cloud and Systems Performance
IBM Corporation
Date: 06/07/2018 02:15 PM
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work
space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple
files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online
temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from
the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over
the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not
have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets
via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK
space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where
it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of
DASD. Now it fails with
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have
no working example to share with the user. My question: what should
DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag
them into a sysprog guessing game.
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
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Michael Babcock
2018-06-07 20:11:30 UTC
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I understand now. Tape sortwks do work. My company used to have several
jobs using them.
Post by David Betten
Just a few thoughts on ways you might be able to reduce the sort work
requirement.
Since the input is on tape, do we know if DFSORT is getting accurate file
size information? Do you see DFSORT messages in the output like UNKNOWN
FILE SIZE or INTERMEDIATE MERGE...?
The reason I ask is that if DFSORT doesn't know the file size or
incorrectly estimates, it can under allocate virtual storage which makes
the sort very inefficient and causes an increase in sort work space
requirements.
Another option to consider would be splitting the input file, sorting each
segment separately, then merging the outputs. Not ideal, but still might
run faster than a single large sort using tape sort work.
If you could post the DFSORT messages from the job, we might be able to
offer some better suggestions.
Have a nice day,
Dave Betten
z/OS Performance Specialist
Cloud and Systems Performance
IBM Corporation
Date: 06/07/2018 02:15 PM
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work
space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple
files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online
temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from
the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over
the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not
have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets
via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK
space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where
it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of
DASD. Now it fails with
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000
USER=0063
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have
no working example to share with the user. My question: what should
DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag
them into a sysprog guessing game.
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-07 20:23:33 UTC
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I seem to remember similar problems, and telling sort an estimated amount of data to sort did help. Without looking up, I think the parm on the SORT statement is FILESZ=.
--
Peter Hunkeler



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R.S.
2018-06-08 09:33:16 UTC
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Let me ask again:
What is the size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?


BTW: While sortworks on tape can be justified in case of lack of DASD
space, I still see no reason to specify SORTLIB DD.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2018 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 169.248.488 złotych.


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Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-06-09 17:52:07 UTC
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In one failing job, we get

ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203
ICE253I 0 RECORDS SORTED - PROCESSED: 41,235,203, EXPECTED: 310,580,760 <== note very high expectation

As to how much DASD space is available, I have no idea. Not a storage guy.
Virtual memory is whatever it is at z/OS 2.1.
User tried tape sort but had the job cancelled after 24 hours. Unfortunately canceler apparently purged job as well, so nothing to look at.
As for why specify SORTLIB DD: DFSORT requires it. Job will not run without it.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 2:33 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD

Let me ask again:
What is the size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?


BTW: While sortworks on tape can be justified in case of lack of DASD space, I still see no reason to specify SORTLIB DD.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mike Schwab
2018-06-09 18:13:05 UTC
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I would sort 1 tape at a time then merge them. Or split by the first
character of the key, sort each file, then concatenate by the first
character of the key.
On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:52 PM Jesse 1 Robinson
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In one failing job, we get
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203
ICE253I 0 RECORDS SORTED - PROCESSED: 41,235,203, EXPECTED: 310,580,760 <== note very high expectation
As to how much DASD space is available, I have no idea. Not a storage guy.
Virtual memory is whatever it is at z/OS 2.1.
User tried tape sort but had the job cancelled after 24 hours. Unfortunately canceler apparently purged job as well, so nothing to look at.
As for why specify SORTLIB DD: DFSORT requires it. Job will not run without it.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 2:33 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
What is the size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
BTW: While sortworks on tape can be justified in case of lack of DASD space, I still see no reason to specify SORTLIB DD.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
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--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Alan Young
2018-06-11 00:44:43 UTC
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Can the large file be split into two or more smaller files? One way to split is


https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.iceg200/ice2cg_Splitting.htm


Then sort the smaller files and merge the sorted files. Sort will only merge from two DDs at

a time. Depending on how many small files are created multiple merges or an application program will be needed if the process needs to merge all the sorted split files in one pass.


The merge process may be able to be done differently if the smaller files can be created with INCLUDE criteria to make each small file a unique group like year, subscriber number ranges, etc. If grouping can be done, you may be able to concatenate the files during the merge.


Alan

________________________________
From: Jesse 1 Robinson <***@SCE.COM>
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 10:51
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD

In one failing job, we get  

ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203  
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203            
ICE253I 0 RECORDS SORTED - PROCESSED: 41,235,203, EXPECTED: 310,580,760  <== note very high expectation 

As to how much DASD space is available, I have no idea. Not a storage guy.  
Virtual memory is whatever it is at z/OS 2.1. 
User tried tape sort but had the job cancelled after 24 hours. Unfortunately canceler apparently purged job as well, so nothing to look at. 
As for why specify SORTLIB DD: DFSORT requires it. Job will not run without it. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 2:33 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD

Let me ask again:
What is the size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?


BTW: While sortworks on tape can be justified in case of lack of DASD space, I still see no reason to specify SORTLIB DD.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
My €0.02
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with
IEC130I SORTLIB  DD STATEMENT MISSING
IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063
IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB point to? SMPE puts load modules into
SYS1.SORTLIB
SYS1.SICELINK
Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into a sysprog guessing game.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <===== NEW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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R.S.
2018-06-11 13:35:09 UTC
Reply
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You can try to ICEGENER whole input to DD DUMMY. It will take some time,
but you will get exact number of records and bytes.
Then you'll be able to help DFSORT by using FILSZ with correct size.

Regarding SORTLIB DD - do you need it in *any* sort job, or just this one?
How the DFSORT was installed? Was it part of ServerPac?
BTW: I just read in documentation that SORTLIB is required when
sortworks on tape are used.

Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In one failing job, we get
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203
ICE253I 0 RECORDS SORTED - PROCESSED: 41,235,203, EXPECTED: 310,580,760 <== note very high expectation
As to how much DASD space is available, I have no idea. Not a storage guy.
Virtual memory is whatever it is at z/OS 2.1.
User tried tape sort but had the job cancelled after 24 hours. Unfortunately canceler apparently purged job as well, so nothing to look at.
As for why specify SORTLIB DD: DFSORT requires it. Job will not run without it.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 2:33 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
What is the size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
BTW: While sortworks on tape can be justified in case of lack of DASD space, I still see no reason to specify SORTLIB DD.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTLIB DD
Get rid of SORTWKnn DD
Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork
What is a size of input data?
How much space do you have for temp datasets?
How much memory can the job use?
======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2018 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 169.248.488 złotych.


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Alan Young
2018-06-11 15:19:54 UTC
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If the dataset is RECFM=F and the tape(s) statistics can be viewed in a
tape management product, the record count can be approximated with the
sum of the block counts of the tape(s) * the block size and then divided
by the LRECL. It is an approximation as it is not known many records are
actually in the last block. So it will be a slight over estimation, but
reasonable one.

If the dataset is RECFM=V, the above formula may be workable. It depends
on what the average LRECL is on the file. Knowing the data structure in
the file helps. Depending on the data, the record count computed times
four worked for the situations that we had. YMMV.
Post by R.S.
You can try to ICEGENER whole input to DD DUMMY. It will take some
time, but you will get exact number of records and bytes.
Then you'll be able to help DFSORT by using FILSZ with correct size.
Regarding SORTLIB DD - do you need it in *any* sort job, or just this one?
How the DFSORT was installed? Was it part of ServerPac?
BTW: I just read in documentation that SORTLIB is required when
sortworks on tape are used.
Regards
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-06-11 16:04:17 UTC
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An update. I was wrong about the nature of this job. I assumed that it was ad hoc; wrong, it's actually a scheduled production job that usually works depending on SORTIN size. SORTIN size depends on the number of tape GDG members that have accumulated, an external happenstance that the sort product cannot guess. Neither can TWS.

Several folks have offered suggestions on how to make the job work. Variations are difficult to handle with a job scheduler. But the bottom line is that work space is limited to--whatever it is. Over the weekend the Storage boys added some temporary DASD volumes just to get this job over the hump. That's not an elegant way to run a grownup mainframe shop.

To answer Radislow, DFSORT was installed with ServerPac. SORTLIB is *required* for tape-based sorts even though we include SYS1.SORTLIB in the link list.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Young
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 8:20 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD

If the dataset is RECFM=F and the tape(s) statistics can be viewed in a tape management product, the record count can be approximated with the sum of the block counts of the tape(s) * the block size and then divided by the LRECL. It is an approximation as it is not known many records are actually in the last block. So it will be a slight over estimation, but reasonable one.

If the dataset is RECFM=V, the above formula may be workable. It depends on what the average LRECL is on the file. Knowing the data structure in the file helps. Depending on the data, the record count computed times four worked for the situations that we had. YMMV.
Post by R.S.
You can try to ICEGENER whole input to DD DUMMY. It will take some
time, but you will get exact number of records and bytes.
Then you'll be able to help DFSORT by using FILSZ with correct size.
Regarding SORTLIB DD - do you need it in *any* sort job, or just this
one?
How the DFSORT was installed? Was it part of ServerPac?
BTW: I just read in documentation that SORTLIB is required when
sortworks on tape are used.
Regards
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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