Discussion:
xkcd is too true, but posted at the wrong time.
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John McKown
2017-08-31 11:46:59 UTC
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This is so true around here during the time change.

https://xkcd.com/1883/
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Steve Smith
2017-08-31 12:37:13 UTC
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from http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1883

"Supervillains have reason to fear daylight saving time issues. In
1999, two coordinated car bombings ended up killing the terrorists
transporting the bombs when they exploded one hour early. Details
explained e.g. on the Darwin Awards site. "

Now, isn't there an unwritten rule not to refer to xkcd except on
Friday? Sheesh, another hour gone I have to make up :-)

sas

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 7:47 AM, John McKown
Post by John McKown
This is so true around here during the time change.
https://xkcd.com/1883/
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Caution! The OP is an hyperpolysyllabicsesquipedalianist and this email may
cause stress to those with hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown
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sas

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Mike Schwab
2017-08-31 16:26:03 UTC
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Israel in 1999 switched early to standard time for pre-dawn prayers.
Palestinian bombers were still on DST and transporting bombs when they
went off, thinking they had another hour.
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-38.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Summer_Time Oh, geeze, no define
rule since the Lunar Hebrew calendar gets quite out of sync with the
Gregorian Calendar, so a lot of last minute changes.

And again in Ireland in 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10739277/Device-exploded-in-bombers-face-after-he-forgot-about-clocks-changing.html
Post by Steve Smith
from http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1883
"Supervillains have reason to fear daylight saving time issues. In
1999, two coordinated car bombings ended up killing the terrorists
transporting the bombs when they exploded one hour early. Details
explained e.g. on the Darwin Awards site. "
Now, isn't there an unwritten rule not to refer to xkcd except on
Friday? Sheesh, another hour gone I have to make up :-)
sas
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 7:47 AM, John McKown
Post by John McKown
This is so true around here during the time change.
https://xkcd.com/1883/
--
Caution! The OP is an hyperpolysyllabicsesquipedalianist and this email may
cause stress to those with hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown
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sas
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Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Steve Smith
2017-08-31 16:51:32 UTC
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Man, I'd love to use these to start a campaign called "DST Kills".

But so far, only seems to affect bad guys. :-(

sas
Post by Mike Schwab
Israel in 1999 switched early to standard time for pre-dawn prayers.
Palestinian bombers were still on DST and transporting bombs when they
went off, thinking they had another hour.
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-38.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Summer_Time Oh, geeze, no define
rule since the Lunar Hebrew calendar gets quite out of sync with the
Gregorian Calendar, so a lot of last minute changes.
And again in Ireland in 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10739277/Device-exploded-in-bombers-face-after-he-forgot-about-clocks-changing.html
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Mike Schwab
2017-08-31 17:04:25 UTC
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DST was started to save electric lighting costs. But since the
introduction of Air Conditioning, DST often gets people home right at
the hottest part of the day, so A/Cs that were set to let the
temperature climb during the day kick in to cool down for occupancy
right when the demand is highest. If we went with one hour later in
Summer the temps would have two hours to cool greatly lessening the
A/C load.
Post by Steve Smith
Man, I'd love to use these to start a campaign called "DST Kills".
But so far, only seems to affect bad guys. :-(
sas
Post by Mike Schwab
Israel in 1999 switched early to standard time for pre-dawn prayers.
Palestinian bombers were still on DST and transporting bombs when they
went off, thinking they had another hour.
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-38.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Summer_Time Oh, geeze, no define
rule since the Lunar Hebrew calendar gets quite out of sync with the
Gregorian Calendar, so a lot of last minute changes.
And again in Ireland in 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10739277/Device-exploded-in-bombers-face-after-he-forgot-about-clocks-changing.html
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Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Paul Gilmartin
2017-08-31 17:14:46 UTC
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Post by Steve Smith
Man, I'd love to use these to start a campaign called "DST Kills".
But so far, only seems to affect bad guys. :-(
May I put in a word for UTC for critical timestamps?

And Olson TZ database for z/OS and z/VM?

And Leap Second Smearing?

We seem to be able to deal with a 24-hour offset for Leap Year routinely (except Y2K?).

But a 1-hour offset for DST is a PITA.

And a 1-second offset for Leap Second causes networks to crash.

This seems strangely similar to Parkinson's Law of Triviality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
Post by Steve Smith
Post by Mike Schwab
Israel in 1999 switched early to standard time for pre-dawn prayers.
Palestinian bombers were still on DST and transporting bombs when they
went off, thinking they had another hour.
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-38.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Summer_Time Oh, geeze, no define
rule since the Lunar Hebrew calendar gets quite out of sync with the
Gregorian Calendar, so a lot of last minute changes.
This is hardly any longer at the discretion of the Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem.
Post by Steve Smith
Post by Mike Schwab
And again in Ireland in 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10739277/Device-exploded-in-bombers-face-after-he-forgot-about-clocks-changing.html
-- gil

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Allan Kielstra
2017-08-31 17:22:46 UTC
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The start date and end date for DST was adjusted sometime in the decade of the 2000s. Again, this was done as an energy saving scheme. I can't find the evidence of it at the moment but I recall another instance of the law of unintended consequences. Apparently, (at least in the US) early in the new DST period, a fair number of people got home from work while it was quite light and used the opportunity to drive to a mall or place of entertainment. As a result energy consumption actually went up in the first weeks. (Again, this may be apocryphal. Still, I found it a bit amusing.)

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Paul Gilmartin
2017-08-31 17:47:57 UTC
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The start date and end date for DST was adjusted sometime in the decade of the 2000s. ...
2007: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#2005.E2.80.932009:_Second_extension
... Again, this was done as an energy saving scheme. I can't find the evidence of it at the moment but I recall another instance of the law of unintended consequences. Apparently, (at least in the US) early in the new DST period, a fair number of people got home from work while it was quite light and used the opportunity to drive to a mall or place of entertainment. As a result energy consumption actually went up in the first weeks. (Again, this may be apocryphal. Still, I found it a bit amusing.)
-- gil

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scott Ford
2017-08-31 17:53:51 UTC
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So I guess no one ever thought about stopping the usage of DST..

A bunch of us would be grateful....lol


Scott

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:49 PM Paul Gilmartin <
Post by Allan Kielstra
The start date and end date for DST was adjusted sometime in the decade
of the 2000s. ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#2005.E2.80.932009:_Second_extension
Post by Allan Kielstra
... Again, this was done as an energy saving scheme. I can't find the
evidence of it at the moment but I recall another instance of the law of
unintended consequences. Apparently, (at least in the US) early in the new
DST period, a fair number of people got home from work while it was quite
light and used the opportunity to drive to a mall or place of
entertainment. As a result energy consumption actually went up in the
first weeks. (Again, this may be apocryphal. Still, I found it a bit
amusing.)
-- gil
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Scott Ford
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zMan
2017-08-31 18:08:42 UTC
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And then there are the clocks we have that automatically do DST--but which
predate the semi-recent date adjustment. So instead of having to adjust the
clocks twice a year like most clocks, we have to adjust these FOUR times a
year. Yay. And no, there's no switch to disable it (so I guess they never
wanted to sell 'em in Indiana or most of Arizona).
Post by scott Ford
So I guess no one ever thought about stopping the usage of DST..
A bunch of us would be grateful....lol
Scott
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:49 PM Paul Gilmartin <
Post by Allan Kielstra
The start date and end date for DST was adjusted sometime in the decade
of the 2000s. ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_
United_States#2005.E2.80.932009:_Second_extension
Post by Allan Kielstra
... Again, this was done as an energy saving scheme. I can't find the
evidence of it at the moment but I recall another instance of the law of
unintended consequences. Apparently, (at least in the US) early in the
new
DST period, a fair number of people got home from work while it was quite
light and used the opportunity to drive to a mall or place of
entertainment. As a result energy consumption actually went up in the
first weeks. (Again, this may be apocryphal. Still, I found it a bit
amusing.)
-- gil
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Scott Ford
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-08-31 18:57:32 UTC
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There was a great deal of debate over DST during the petro crisis of the early 1970s. Proposal then was to make DST the year-round standard for further energy saving--if DST really saves energy at all. One debating point was the specter of millions of children waiting for school buses in the pitch dark. There were in fact a few highly publicized incidents of kids getting hit by the road side at oh-dark-thirty. Permanent DST proposal died, although the start and end dates were (much) later shifted to elongate the DST period.

Another motivation for DST, I was told as a kid, was to encourage working stiffs to cultivate vegetable gardens. DST was a war measure after all, and food was a critical resource. What impact DST ever had on the dinner table is moot, but on paper at least it gave the old man an extra hour to hoe his tomato patch before dark.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
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-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:09 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: xkcd is too true, but posted at the wrong time.

And then there are the clocks we have that automatically do DST--but which predate the semi-recent date adjustment. So instead of having to adjust the clocks twice a year like most clocks, we have to adjust these FOUR times a year. Yay. And no, there's no switch to disable it (so I guess they never wanted to sell 'em in Indiana or most of Arizona).
Post by scott Ford
So I guess no one ever thought about stopping the usage of DST..
A bunch of us would be grateful....lol
Scott
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:49 PM Paul Gilmartin <
Post by Allan Kielstra
The start date and end date for DST was adjusted sometime in the
decade
of the 2000s. ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_
United_States#2005.E2.80.932009:_Second_extension
Post by Allan Kielstra
... Again, this was done as an energy saving scheme. I can't find
the
evidence of it at the moment but I recall another instance of the
law of unintended consequences. Apparently, (at least in the US)
early in the
new
DST period, a fair number of people got home from work while it was
quite light and used the opportunity to drive to a mall or place of
entertainment. As a result energy consumption actually went up in
the first weeks. (Again, this may be apocryphal. Still, I found it
a bit
amusing.)
-- gil
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development
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Pew, Curtis G
2017-08-31 19:37:00 UTC
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Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Another motivation for DST, I was told as a kid, was to encourage working stiffs to cultivate vegetable gardens. DST was a war measure after all, and food was a critical resource. What impact DST ever had on the dinner table is moot, but on paper at least it gave the old man an extra hour to hoe his tomato patch before dark.
I’ve heard that the biggest advocates for DST are the sports equipment manufacturers and golf courses, etc. Makes sense. I don’t believe any of the reasons that have been given for DST, like “energy saving” or “helping farmers”, has any real supporting evidence.

Many years ago when he was still alive and writing regular columns for “The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction” Isaac Asimov had a column about DST. He said something like, “If Congress passed a law saying everyone had to get up an hour earlier, there would be rioting in the streets and widespread disobedience. Instead, they passed a law saying everyone has to set their clocks ahead an hour, and everyone just does it.”
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Gibney, Dave
2017-08-31 19:56:04 UTC
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If I had a say, I would prefer to keep DST and end the switch back to Standard.
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: xkcd is too true, but posted at the wrong time.
There was a great deal of debate over DST during the petro crisis of the early
1970s. Proposal then was to make DST the year-round standard for further
energy saving--if DST really saves energy at all. One debating point was the
specter of millions of children waiting for school buses in the pitch dark.
There were in fact a few highly publicized incidents of kids getting hit by the
road side at oh-dark-thirty. Permanent DST proposal died, although the start
and end dates were (much) later shifted to elongate the DST period.
Another motivation for DST, I was told as a kid, was to encourage working
stiffs to cultivate vegetable gardens. DST was a war measure after all, and
food was a critical resource. What impact DST ever had on the dinner table is
moot, but on paper at least it gave the old man an extra hour to hoe his
tomato patch before dark.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:09 AM
Subject: (External):Re: xkcd is too true, but posted at the wrong time.
And then there are the clocks we have that automatically do DST--but which
predate the semi-recent date adjustment. So instead of having to adjust the
clocks twice a year like most clocks, we have to adjust these FOUR times a
year. Yay. And no, there's no switch to disable it (so I guess they never
wanted to sell 'em in Indiana or most of Arizona).
Post by scott Ford
So I guess no one ever thought about stopping the usage of DST..
A bunch of us would be grateful....lol
Scott
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:49 PM Paul Gilmartin <
Post by Allan Kielstra
The start date and end date for DST was adjusted sometime in the
decade
of the 2000s. ...
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Daylight-5Fsaving-5Ftime-5Fin-5Fthe-
5F&d=DwIGaQ&c=C3yme8gMkxg_ihJNXS06ZyWk4EJm8LdrrvxQb-
Je7sw&r=u9g8rUevBoyCPAdo5sWE9w&m=BEGqdq789SrxwMQyYp3fo0n3LK
1Sc1PELx4siiS5dxs&s=b00Q_0_ym4zeL3Om36Uc2Ts_byBC-
vwY2XXXj0gsGhI&e=
Post by scott Ford
United_States#2005.E2.80.932009:_Second_extension
Post by Allan Kielstra
... Again, this was done as an energy saving scheme. I can't find
the
evidence of it at the moment but I recall another instance of the
law of unintended consequences. Apparently, (at least in the US)
early in the
new
DST period, a fair number of people got home from work while it was
quite light and used the opportunity to drive to a mall or place of
entertainment. As a result energy consumption actually went up in
the first weeks. (Again, this may be apocryphal. Still, I found it
a bit
amusing.)
-- gil
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development
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Tom Marchant
2017-08-31 20:38:00 UTC
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So we get to have our semi-annual DST discussion three times this year.
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Tom Marchant

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