Discussion:
JES2 Checkpoint question
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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 13:54:02 UTC
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I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Gerhard Adam
2017-07-28 14:07:16 UTC
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You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you had to COLD start.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question

I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 14:13:23 UTC
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thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move to NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT files, due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back up.
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover, but at the time....there was no time.


Carmen

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gerhard Adam" <***@CHARTER.NET>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you had to COLD start.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question

I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 14:27:31 UTC
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Answering you Lizzette via myself if you don't mind, your response came to my work email and not this account :(


you Stated;



Think IBM recommendation is for CKPT1 to be in CF and CKPT2 on DASD.

That way if either fails, you should be okay.

Side Note: Moving the CKPT from CF to DASD or from DASD to another DASD is very easy. We have done ours during the day time. The process is very quick.

There is a SHARE presentation from 2004: JES2 Checkpoint Reconfiguration

From the z/OS JES2 Initialization and Tuning Guide SA32-0991-00

In general, to prevent a total loss of the job queue, you should use 2 checkpoints, specify CKPT DUPLEX=ON on all members, and place CKPT2 on a DASD.



Thank you so much for the quick answer, I was concerned about moving CKPT2 to DASD and leaving CKPT1 in the CF because we have a DR scheduled this month (local system) and I will be IPL'd both systems on a new CEC and I need to maintain the spool integrity. I'll check the Share presentation you provided, thanks, and thanks for the sanity check with the duplex setting.


Carmen



----- Original Message -----

From: "Carmen Vitullo" <***@HUGHES.NET>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:14:32 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move to NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT files, due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back up.
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover, but at the time....there was no time.


Carmen

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gerhard Adam" <***@CHARTER.NET>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you had to COLD start.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question

I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Gerhard Adam
2017-07-28 16:15:41 UTC
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I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to create it.

That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still get a new data set created and migrated to.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move to NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT files, due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back up.
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover, but at the time....there was no time.


Carmen

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gerhard Adam" <***@CHARTER.NET>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you had to COLD start.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question

I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
2017-07-31 06:59:39 UTC
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But still, if both checkpoints were in CF's, the POR cleared both of them, so there is nothing to reconfigure. A COLD start would indeed be the fastest.

Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 28 July, 2017 18:17
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT
dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to create it.
That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still get a
new data set created and migrated to.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move to
NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT files,
due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back up.
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover, but
at the time....there was no time.
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you had to COLD start.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't
seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a
sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint
last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a
JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2
in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and
duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on
DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Gerhard Adam
2017-07-31 10:09:24 UTC
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I disagree. The point of reconfiguration is also to recover from checkpoint loss.

Sent from my iPhone
Post by Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
But still, if both checkpoints were in CF's, the POR cleared both of them, so there is nothing to reconfigure. A COLD start would indeed be the fastest.
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 28 July, 2017 18:17
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT
dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to create it.
That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still get a
new data set created and migrated to.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move to
NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT files,
due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back up.
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover, but
at the time....there was no time.
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you had to COLD start.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't
seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a
sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint
last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a
JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2
in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and
duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on
DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
2017-07-31 10:15:08 UTC
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I agree, that I can recover JES2 to use new checkpoints if the originals are definitely gone, but that was not the case here.
What can I recover, when both checkpoints have been emptied by the POR?

Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 31 July, 2017 12:11
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I disagree. The point of reconfiguration is also to recover from checkpoint loss.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:00 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
But still, if both checkpoints were in CF's, the POR cleared both of
them, so there is nothing to reconfigure. A COLD start would indeed be
the fastest.
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 28 July, 2017 18:17
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT
dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to create
it.
Post by Gerhard Adam
That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still get
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
new data set created and migrated to.
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move
to
Post by Gerhard Adam
NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT
files,
Post by Gerhard Adam
due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back
up.
Post by Gerhard Adam
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover,
but
Post by Gerhard Adam
at the time....there was no time.
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you
had
Post by Gerhard Adam
to COLD start.
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I
can't
Post by Gerhard Adam
seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints
are
Post by Gerhard Adam
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for
maint
Post by Gerhard Adam
last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a
JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave
CKPT2
Post by Gerhard Adam
in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and
duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on
DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any
delay in receipt.
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Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with
registered number 33014286
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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-31 12:22:25 UTC
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That what I was thinking, according to the doc, and its not 100% clear I can recover from a lost CKPT, so does that assume just one lost CKPT while JES2 is up, or during a shutdown, there are so many different recovery scenarios' but none that fit my situation.
It was my bad planning, putting both CKPT's in the CF's and not planning this thru to the power down - POR
lessons learned here.
thank again all
Carmen


----- Original Message -----

From: "Kees Vernooij (ITOPT1) - KLM" <***@KLM.COM>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 5:16:09 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

I agree, that I can recover JES2 to use new checkpoints if the originals are definitely gone, but that was not the case here.
What can I recover, when both checkpoints have been emptied by the POR?

Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 31 July, 2017 12:11
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I disagree. The point of reconfiguration is also to recover from
checkpoint loss.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:00 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
But still, if both checkpoints were in CF's, the POR cleared both of
them, so there is nothing to reconfigure. A COLD start would indeed be
the fastest.
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 28 July, 2017 18:17
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT
dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to create
it.
Post by Gerhard Adam
That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still get
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
new data set created and migrated to.
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to move
to
Post by Gerhard Adam
NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT
files,
Post by Gerhard Adam
due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back
up.
Post by Gerhard Adam
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover,
but
Post by Gerhard Adam
at the time....there was no time.
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why you
had
Post by Gerhard Adam
to COLD start.
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I
can't
Post by Gerhard Adam
seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints
are
Post by Gerhard Adam
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for
maint
Post by Gerhard Adam
last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a
JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave
CKPT2
Post by Gerhard Adam
in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and
duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on
DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
2017-07-31 12:33:00 UTC
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I think I remember from the past, when we had CKPT in the CF, that only 1 of every 10 writes to the primary ckpt is done to the secondary. So having the secondary on dasd will cause minimal performance degradation, if that were a concern.

Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: 31 July, 2017 14:24
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
That what I was thinking, according to the doc, and its not 100% clear I
can recover from a lost CKPT, so does that assume just one lost CKPT
while JES2 is up, or during a shutdown, there are so many different
recovery scenarios' but none that fit my situation.
It was my bad planning, putting both CKPT's in the CF's and not planning
this thru to the power down - POR
lessons learned here.
thank again all
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 5:16:09 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I agree, that I can recover JES2 to use new checkpoints if the originals
are definitely gone, but that was not the case here.
What can I recover, when both checkpoints have been emptied by the POR?
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 31 July, 2017 12:11
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I disagree. The point of reconfiguration is also to recover from
checkpoint loss.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:00 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
But still, if both checkpoints were in CF's, the POR cleared both of
them, so there is nothing to reconfigure. A COLD start would indeed be
the fastest.
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 28 July, 2017 18:17
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT
dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to create
it.
Post by Gerhard Adam
That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still
get
Post by Gerhard Adam
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
new data set created and migrated to.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to
move
Post by Gerhard Adam
to
Post by Gerhard Adam
NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT
files,
Post by Gerhard Adam
due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems back
up.
Post by Gerhard Adam
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to recover,
but
Post by Gerhard Adam
at the time....there was no time.
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why
you
Post by Gerhard Adam
had
Post by Gerhard Adam
to COLD start.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I
can't
Post by Gerhard Adam
seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can
provide
Post by Gerhard Adam
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints
are
Post by Gerhard Adam
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for
maint
Post by Gerhard Adam
last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
Post by Gerhard Adam
JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave
CKPT2
Post by Gerhard Adam
in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and
duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's
on
Post by Gerhard Adam
Post by Gerhard Adam
DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Lizette Koehler
2017-07-28 14:11:55 UTC
Reply
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Think IBM recommendation is for CKPT1 to be in CF and CKPT2 on DASD.

That way if either fails, you should be okay.

Side Note: Moving the CKPT from CF to DASD or from DASD to another DASD is very easy. We have done ours during the day time. The process is very quick.

There is a SHARE presentation from 2004: JES2 Checkpoint Reconfiguration

From the z/OS JES2 Initialization and Tuning Guide SA32-0991-00

In general, to prevent a total loss of the job queue, you should use 2 checkpoints, specify CKPT DUPLEX=ON on all members, and place CKPT2 on a DASD.



Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem
to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity
check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last
month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold
start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so
my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that
configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 14:24:14 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Finally received your reposne :)
so using the JES CKPT dialog to move CKPT2 from the structure to DASD is a non issue? just wanted to be sure
using
$T CKPTDEF,RECONFIG=Y
then using the option to reassign CKPT2 from STRNAME= to DATASETNAME= I've defined?
thanks again


Carmen

----- Original Message -----

From: "Lizette Koehler" <***@MINDSPRING.COM>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:13:14 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

Think IBM recommendation is for CKPT1 to be in CF and CKPT2 on DASD.

That way if either fails, you should be okay.

Side Note: Moving the CKPT from CF to DASD or from DASD to another DASD is very easy. We have done ours during the day time. The process is very quick.

There is a SHARE presentation from 2004: JES2 Checkpoint Reconfiguration

From the z/OS JES2 Initialization and Tuning Guide SA32-0991-00

In general, to prevent a total loss of the job queue, you should use 2 checkpoints, specify CKPT DUPLEX=ON on all members, and place CKPT2 on a DASD.



Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem
to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity
check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last
month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold
start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so
my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that
configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Lizette Koehler
2017-07-28 14:31:17 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Correct.

The RECONFIG dialog is very good. You just need to know where you are going to.

It is a lot of steps. So review each message as it occurs during the process. Until you enter that last "go for it" to JES2 there does not seem to be any impacts.

Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
Finally received your reposne :)
so using the JES CKPT dialog to move CKPT2 from the structure to DASD is a
non issue? just wanted to be sure using $T CKPTDEF,RECONFIG=Y then using the
option to reassign CKPT2 from STRNAME= to DATASETNAME= I've defined?
thanks again
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:13:14 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
Think IBM recommendation is for CKPT1 to be in CF and CKPT2 on DASD.
That way if either fails, you should be okay.
Side Note: Moving the CKPT from CF to DASD or from DASD to another DASD is
very easy. We have done ours during the day time. The process is very quick.
There is a SHARE presentation from 2004: JES2 Checkpoint Reconfiguration
From the z/OS JES2 Initialization and Tuning Guide SA32-0991-00
In general, to prevent a total loss of the job queue, you should use 2
checkpoints, specify CKPT DUPLEX=ON on all members, and place CKPT2 on a
DASD.
Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I
can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can
provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for
maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to
perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to
leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with
mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both
CKPT's on DASD.
Post by Gerhard Adam
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 15:50:41 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Great, I've used the reconfig dialog in test and it worked great, thanks again Lizette !
Carmen


----- Original Message -----

From: "Lizette Koehler" <***@MINDSPRING.COM>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:32:35 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

Correct.

The RECONFIG dialog is very good. You just need to know where you are going to.

It is a lot of steps. So review each message as it occurs during the process. Until you enter that last "go for it" to JES2 there does not seem to be any impacts.

Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
Finally received your reposne :)
so using the JES CKPT dialog to move CKPT2 from the structure to DASD is a
non issue? just wanted to be sure using $T CKPTDEF,RECONFIG=Y then using the
option to reassign CKPT2 from STRNAME= to DATASETNAME= I've defined?
thanks again
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:13:14 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
Think IBM recommendation is for CKPT1 to be in CF and CKPT2 on DASD.
That way if either fails, you should be okay.
Side Note: Moving the CKPT from CF to DASD or from DASD to another DASD is
very easy. We have done ours during the day time. The process is very quick.
There is a SHARE presentation from 2004: JES2 Checkpoint Reconfiguration
From the z/OS JES2 Initialization and Tuning Guide SA32-0991-00
In general, to prevent a total loss of the job queue, you should use 2
checkpoints, specify CKPT DUPLEX=ON on all members, and place CKPT2 on a
DASD.
Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I
can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can
provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for
maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to
perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to
leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with
mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both
CKPT's on DASD.
Post by Gerhard Adam
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 14:45:32 UTC
Reply
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Great, I've used the reconfig dialog in test and it worked great, thanks again Lizette !
Carmen

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Jerry Whitteridge
2017-07-28 16:31:01 UTC
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We run with CKPT1 in the CF and CKPT2 on DASD for DR recovery. You should have no issues mixing.

You certainly should not have lost your spool just because you shutdown - I'm assuming cleanly

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
623 869 5523
Corporate Tieline - 85523

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question

I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 17:39:47 UTC
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That's good to know Jerry, thank you.
shutdown was normal and successful, the POR of the box and the fact I had both checkpoints in the CF's (both CF's on the same CEC) cause me to loose spool data, well and the fact I didn't have the luxury of time to research my alternatives during that shutdown weekend.
thanks again for the sanity check, Much appreciated !


Carmen


----- Original Message -----

From: "Jerry Whitteridge" <***@ALBERTSONS.COM>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 11:32:06 AM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question

We run with CKPT1 in the CF and CKPT2 on DASD for DR recovery. You should have no issues mixing.

You certainly should not have lost your spool just because you shutdown - I'm assuming cleanly

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
623 869 5523
Corporate Tieline - 85523

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question

I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all

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Lizette Koehler
2017-07-28 18:23:17 UTC
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So next time you are working on the CEC with the CF, you could use the RECONFIG to move the CKPT temporarily to DASD. Do what you need to do, then move it back.

You do not always need to fill in all CKPT dataset info - once moved, you can leave CKPT2 empty till you are ready to go back.


I think that was the only step that was missing when you updated the CEC box where both of your CKPT datasets were located. All that was needed was moving CKPT1 to dasd, do the change, then move CKPT1 back to CF



Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question
That's good to know Jerry, thank you.
shutdown was normal and successful, the POR of the box and the fact I had
both checkpoints in the CF's (both CF's on the same CEC) cause me to loose
spool data, well and the fact I didn't have the luxury of time to research my
alternatives during that shutdown weekend.
thanks again for the sanity check, Much appreciated !
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 11:32:06 AM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question
We run with CKPT1 in the CF and CKPT2 on DASD for DR recovery. You should
have no issues mixing.
You certainly should not have lost your spool just because you shutdown - I'm
assuming cleanly
Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
623 869 5523
Corporate Tieline - 85523
If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem
to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity
check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last
month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold
start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so
my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that
configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Carmen Vitullo
2017-07-28 18:28:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Excellent idea also, there's a couple of recovery options for after I loose the CKPT that I'd be skeptical if they'd work, best to have a better plan prior to an outage :)
I've moved my CKPT2 to DASD today with no issues, thanks Lizette and everyone here for their great help.
Carmen




----- Original Message -----

From: "Lizette Koehler" <***@MINDSPRING.COM>
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 1:24:35 PM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question

So next time you are working on the CEC with the CF, you could use the RECONFIG to move the CKPT temporarily to DASD. Do what you need to do, then move it back.

You do not always need to fill in all CKPT dataset info - once moved, you can leave CKPT2 empty till you are ready to go back.


I think that was the only step that was missing when you updated the CEC box where both of your CKPT datasets were located. All that was needed was moving CKPT1 to dasd, do the change, then move CKPT1 back to CF



Lizette
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question
That's good to know Jerry, thank you.
shutdown was normal and successful, the POR of the box and the fact I had
both checkpoints in the CF's (both CF's on the same CEC) cause me to loose
spool data, well and the fact I didn't have the luxury of time to research my
alternatives during that shutdown weekend.
thanks again for the sanity check, Much appreciated !
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 11:32:06 AM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question
We run with CKPT1 in the CF and CKPT2 on DASD for DR recovery. You should
have no issues mixing.
You certainly should not have lost your spool just because you shutdown - I'm
assuming cleanly
Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
623 869 5523
Corporate Tieline - 85523
If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: EXTERNAL: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I can't seem
to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can provide a sanity
check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both checkpoints are
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for maint last
month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to perform a JES2 cold
start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave CKPT2 in the CF, so
my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and duplex=on in that
configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's on DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you all
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-07-31 18:28:57 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
The JES2 checkpoint is the only mechanism that maps spool data. Assuming two outboard copies of the checkpoint--wherever located--either one can be reconstructed dynamically from the other even at IPL time. If both are lost or destroyed--wherever located--you are SOL at IPL time. In particular, the checkpoint *cannot* be recovered or reconstructed from spool data alone. Without a usable copy of the checkpoint somewhere (in memory counts), spool data is meaningless. Cold start time.

So never put both primary and alternate copies in CFs in a single CEC. It's doable with dual CECs but maybe not a great use of CF memory. There are two chief advantages of CF checkpoint: performance in general (responsiveness) and performance balancing among CECs of widely different speeds (XCF tends to serialize accesses). If you choose to use CF for checkpoint in a single CEC, put *only* the primary in a structure.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 5:34 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: JES2 Checkpoint question

I think I remember from the past, when we had CKPT in the CF, that only 1 of every 10 writes to the primary ckpt is done to the secondary. So having the secondary on dasd will cause minimal performance degradation, if that were a concern.

Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: 31 July, 2017 14:24
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
That what I was thinking, according to the doc, and its not 100% clear
I can recover from a lost CKPT, so does that assume just one lost CKPT
while JES2 is up, or during a shutdown, there are so many different
recovery scenarios' but none that fit my situation.
It was my bad planning, putting both CKPT's in the CF's and not
planning this thru to the power down - POR lessons learned here.
thank again all
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 5:16:09 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I agree, that I can recover JES2 to use new checkpoints if the
originals are definitely gone, but that was not the case here.
What can I recover, when both checkpoints have been emptied by the POR?
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 31 July, 2017 12:11
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I disagree. The point of reconfiguration is also to recover from
checkpoint loss.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:00 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
But still, if both checkpoints were in CF's, the POR cleared both
of
them, so there is nothing to reconfigure. A COLD start would indeed
be the fastest.
Kees.
Post by Gerhard Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: 28 July, 2017 18:17
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
I wasn't sure if you were aware that you can make up a NEWCKPT
dynamically and if it doesn't exist, JES2 will prompt you to
create
it.
Post by Gerhard Adam
That way if you don't have an existing definition, you can still
get
Post by Gerhard Adam
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
new data set created and migrated to.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
thank you
I decided to do a cold start due to the fact while an attempt to
move
Post by Gerhard Adam
to
Post by Gerhard Adam
NEWCKPRT1 or 2 during startup I received I/O errors on the CKPT
files,
Post by Gerhard Adam
due to time constrains on my downtime I had to get the systems
back
up.
Post by Gerhard Adam
I've since read there are somethings I could have tried to
recover,
but
Post by Gerhard Adam
at the time....there was no time.
Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:08:21 AM
Subject: Re: JES2 Checkpoint question
You shouldn't need both on DASD. However, I am curious as to why
you
Post by Gerhard Adam
had
Post by Gerhard Adam
to COLD start.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-
On
Post by Gerhard Adam
Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:55 AM
Subject: JES2 Checkpoint question
I've looked and looked at the Init and Tuning REF and Guide and I
can't
Post by Gerhard Adam
seem to find an answer to my question, I'm hoping someone can
provide
Post by Gerhard Adam
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
sanity check for me.
I have a 2 system JES2 MAS both running z/OS 2.1, both
checkpoints
are
Post by Gerhard Adam
currently in a CF with mode=duplex and duplex=on.
my issue is both CF's are in the same CEC so a POR of the box for
maint
Post by Gerhard Adam
last month I lost all my prod spool data and was forced to
perform
a
Post by Gerhard Adam
Post by Gerhard Adam
JES2 cold start. I need to move CKPT1 to DASD and I want to leave
CKPT2
Post by Gerhard Adam
in the CF, so my question is can I still run with mode=duplex and
duplex=on in that configuration, or do I need to have both CKPT's
on
Post by Gerhard Adam
Post by Gerhard Adam
DASD.
Any insight or recommendations would be very helpful, thank you
all
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