Discussion:
DLIB volume for SAD
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Peter
2017-09-27 16:47:46 UTC
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Hi

This is general question.

For the SAD(Standalone dump) IPL, why do we chose DLIB volume UCB ? How
does DLIB volume helps in SAD process ?

Peter

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Jousma, David
2017-09-27 17:09:21 UTC
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I don’t know what you mean by dlib volume. I'm assuming you mean SMP DLIB volume. It really doesn’t matter what volume you use to IPL SAD. In our shop, we write SAD ipl code to a few environment specific volumes, that direct SAD to write to a mod-54(s).

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Subject: DLIB volume for SAD

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Hi

This is general question.

For the SAD(Standalone dump) IPL, why do we chose DLIB volume UCB ? How does DLIB volume helps in SAD process ?

Peter

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Jim Mulder
2017-09-27 17:24:16 UTC
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The only restrictions on the SAD IPL device is that it must not
contain a page data set for the system being dumped, and it must
not be used as an output device for this dump.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Peter
This is general question.
For the SAD(Standalone dump) IPL, why do we chose DLIB volume UCB ? How
does DLIB volume helps in SAD process ?
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Tom Marchant
2017-09-27 17:28:01 UTC
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Post by Peter
For the SAD(Standalone dump) IPL, why do we chose DLIB volume UCB ? How
does DLIB volume helps in SAD process ?
One advantage of writing the standalone dump to a DLIB volume is that
you (presumably) have a DLIB zone for every target zone. When you apply
maintenance that requires that the SAD IPLTEXT be rebuilt, you can
maintain multiple SAD IPL volumes that correspond to the multiple MVS IPL
volumes.
--
Tom Marchant

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Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-09-27 18:12:20 UTC
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As a practical matter, the SAD IPL volume needs enough space to contain the SYS1.PAGEDUMP.Vxxxxxx data set, which seems to be 92 tracks at z/OS 2.1. Furthermore, the volume needs to be reachable--not necessarily online--from every MVS image that might conceivably need to take SAD. Depending on your configuration, you may need more than one SAD IPL volume.

In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
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-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:25 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

The only restrictions on the SAD IPL device is that it must not contain a page data set for the system being dumped, and it must not be used as an output device for this dump.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Peter
This is general question.
For the SAD(Standalone dump) IPL, why do we chose DLIB volume UCB ?
How does DLIB volume helps in SAD process ?
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Mark Jacobs - Listserv
2017-09-27 18:21:47 UTC
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When I was doing zOS work, sigh, I always rebuilt the SAD environment on
&SYSR2 every time I rebuilt my sysres set after maintenance activities.

Mark Jacobs
September 27, 2017 at 2:13 PM
As a practical matter, the SAD IPL volume needs enough space to
contain the SYS1.PAGEDUMP.Vxxxxxx data set, which seems to be 92
tracks at z/OS 2.1. Furthermore, the volume needs to be reachable--not
necessarily online--from every MVS image that might conceivably need
to take SAD. Depending on your configuration, you may need more than
one SAD IPL volume.
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:25 AM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
The only restrictions on the SAD IPL device is that it must not
contain a page data set for the system being dumped, and it must not
be used as an output device for this dump.
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
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Jim Mulder
2017-09-27 19:41:05 UTC
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I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible within
the
same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid creating that
scenario.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible
with the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are
made to SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It
could conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have
trouble with a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Greg Dyck
2017-09-27 21:20:54 UTC
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Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
You **MUST** use the version of SAD that matches the version of z/OS
being dumped, as SAD has awareness of RSM internals and protocols.

Failure to match the two up might result in a valid dump but there is no
guarantee that it will result in a valid dump. IPCS will know that the
two do not match based on data from the dump header, as well as the
version if IPCS being used, and report that fact when the dump is
initialized.

Regards,
Greg
Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-09-27 21:10:13 UTC
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My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were missed. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid creating that scenario.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Steely.Mark
2017-09-27 21:15:02 UTC
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A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:11 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD

My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were missed. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid creating that scenario.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Ed Jaffe
2017-09-29 01:40:13 UTC
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Post by Steely.Mark
A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.
We take a SAD every time any of our systems go south.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Peter
2017-09-29 01:43:29 UTC
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Is there a scanning mechanism within Distribution library dataset to scan
the memory of frozen Lpar ?
Post by Ed Jaffe
Post by Steely.Mark
A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a SAD
? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.
We take a SAD every time any of our systems go south.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
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Anthony Thompson
2017-09-29 04:24:26 UTC
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Your question implies confusion.

It is the Stand-Alone Dump program that scans and saves a broken LPAR's memory, which you IPL on top of a broken LPAR. I imagine you can scan a broken LPAR's memory using HMC/SE facilities, but I doubt many people can "PEEK/POKE" a busted-arse LPAR to fix it on the fly successfully. Generally you want the system back up as soon as possible (take SAD and re-boot).

The fact that you SAD program has been installed on the volume that contains your DLIB's is irrelevant. There are no DLIB's or programs from DLIB's involved in the process of a stand-alone dump. It is the installation of the SAD program that generates all the necessary components, on whatever tape or DASD volume you specify (excluding any DASD sysres volumes of course, you don't want to overwrite the IPL text stored in cyl 0,0 that brings up your system).

Refer to the MVS Diagnosis and Service Aids manual for whichever version of z/OS you are using.

Ant.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Friday, 29 September 2017 11:15 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD

Is there a scanning mechanism within Distribution library dataset to scan the memory of frozen Lpar ?
Post by Ed Jaffe
Post by Steely.Mark
A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a
SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.
We take a SAD every time any of our systems go south.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
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Jim Mulder
2017-09-28 03:12:23 UTC
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In that case, you are taking a risk. We don't try to make
SADMP upward or downward compatible across releases,
so whether or not that happens to work depends mainly on what
changes were made in the Real Storage Manager component.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Date: 09/27/2017 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD
My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our
sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before
full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally
rebuild SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at,
we were missed. ;-)
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
] On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible
within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid
creating that scenario.
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-09-27 22:10:24 UTC
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Invitation for early Friday war stories.

When implementing (OS-moniker-du-jour) 1.6, we had several catastrophic failures that required back out to previous level. We took some SADs during that stormy period.

When implementing z/OS 1.13, we had several instances of running clean out of real storage! System hit a wait state, took SAD automatically, then re-IPLed itself. That was entertaining.

We more recently (under 2.1) took SAD and re-IPLed a hung system that would probably have recovered if we had held off a bit longer. Heck, Game of Thrones was on. How long were we supposed to wait? ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steely.Mark
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:16 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:11 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD

My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were missed. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid creating that scenario.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Mark Zelden
2017-09-28 16:15:34 UTC
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I always put SADUMP for each OS release on the 2nd volume of my maintenance
sysres for each OS release (still using 3390-9s). I create an HMC
profile on each CPC for SADUMP at that time. If I was using a mod-27 or anything
large enough where I didn't have a multi-volume sysres set, I would just put it on
the dlib volume instead (this is what I did years ago).

Part of my migration / cut over plan for after a "GO" decision when migrating
releases is to update the HMC SADUMP profile for that LPAR and to verify
AUTOIPL SADMP has been updated in DIAGxx to point to that proper
volume as well (this is staged already in a "migration parmlib" concatenated ahead
of the normal parmlib concatenation. So at any given time during OS upgrade
migration, some LPARs are pointing to one level of SADUMP and other LPARs
pointing to another level. It always matches the SADUMP for the OS version.

Regards,

Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
mailto:***@mzelden.com
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/





==========================================================

On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 22:11:33 +0000, Jesse 1 Robinson <***@SCE.COM> wrote:

Invitation for early Friday war stories.

When implementing (OS-moniker-du-jour) 1.6, we had several catastrophic failures that required back out to previous level. We took some SADs during that stormy period.

When implementing z/OS 1.13, we had several instances of running clean out of real storage! System hit a wait state, took SAD automatically, then re-IPLed itself. That was entertaining.

We more recently (under 2.1) took SAD and re-IPLed a hung system that would probably have recovered if we had held off a bit longer. Heck, Game of Thrones was on. How long were we supposed to wait? ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steely.Mark
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:16 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:11 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD

My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were missed. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD

I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid creating that scenario.

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Mark Zelden
2017-09-28 16:26:12 UTC
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I didn't respond to the "last time you took an SAD". It has been probably 1.5
years at least since a prod / dev LPAR crashed and took an SAD via AUTOIPL,
but it does happen every few years it seems.

The other 2 times were more recent and involved sandbox LPARs. One was just
a week ago when someone had removed a data set from LPA involving
CICS VR because the sandbox LPAR did not run CICS. The LPAR hadn't been
IPLed in over a month and the person who removed it didn't think that was the
reason for the wait state at IPL time. I was able to look at the SADUMP and
figure it out. IBM supplies SYS1.SDWWDLPA with a dummy CICSVR module that
NIP looks for at IPL time and I had to add that back into LPA.

Mr. Murphy taught me a very long time ago that I should always ensure I have
a working SADUMP that matches the OS level requiring it.

Regards,

Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
mailto:***@mzelden.com
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
Post by Mark Zelden
I always put SADUMP for each OS release on the 2nd volume of my maintenance
sysres for each OS release (still using 3390-9s). I create an HMC
profile on each CPC for SADUMP at that time. If I was using a mod-27 or anything
large enough where I didn't have a multi-volume sysres set, I would just put it on
the dlib volume instead (this is what I did years ago).
Part of my migration / cut over plan for after a "GO" decision when migrating
releases is to update the HMC SADUMP profile for that LPAR and to verify
AUTOIPL SADMP has been updated in DIAGxx to point to that proper
volume as well (this is staged already in a "migration parmlib" concatenated ahead
of the normal parmlib concatenation. So at any given time during OS upgrade
migration, some LPARs are pointing to one level of SADUMP and other LPARs
pointing to another level. It always matches the SADUMP for the OS version.
Regards,
Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
==========================================================
Invitation for early Friday war stories.
When implementing (OS-moniker-du-jour) 1.6, we had several catastrophic failures that required back out to previous level. We took some SADs during that stormy period.
When implementing z/OS 1.13, we had several instances of running clean out of real storage! System hit a wait state, took SAD automatically, then re-IPLed itself. That was entertaining.
We more recently (under 2.1) took SAD and re-IPLed a hung system that would probably have recovered if we had held off a bit longer. Heck, Game of Thrones was on. How long were we supposed to wait? ;-)
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD
My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were missed. ;-)
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid creating that scenario.
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
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Mark Jacobs - Listserv
2017-09-28 16:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<snip>

Mr. Murphy taught me a very long time ago that I should always ensure I have
a working SADUMP that matches the OS level requiring it.

<snip>

Agree. That's why I always rebuilt it after every zOS maintenance cycle,
cause' ya never know.

Mark Jacobs
September 28, 2017 at 12:27 PM
I didn't respond to the "last time you took an SAD". It has been
probably 1.5
years at least since a prod / dev LPAR crashed and took an SAD via AUTOIPL,
but it does happen every few years it seems.
The other 2 times were more recent and involved sandbox LPARs. One was
just
a week ago when someone had removed a data set from LPA involving
CICS VR because the sandbox LPAR did not run CICS. The LPAR hadn't been
IPLed in over a month and the person who removed it didn't think that was the
reason for the wait state at IPL time. I was able to look at the
SADUMP and
figure it out. IBM supplies SYS1.SDWWDLPA with a dummy CICSVR module that
NIP looks for at IPL time and I had to add that back into LPA.
Mr. Murphy taught me a very long time ago that I should always ensure I have
a working SADUMP that matches the OS level requiring it.
Regards,
Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
<http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html>
Systems Programming expert at
http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
<http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/>
Post by Mark Zelden
I always put SADUMP for each OS release on the 2nd volume of my
maintenance
Post by Mark Zelden
sysres for each OS release (still using 3390-9s). I create an HMC
profile on each CPC for SADUMP at that time. If I was using a mod-27
or anything
Post by Mark Zelden
large enough where I didn't have a multi-volume sysres set, I would
just put it on
Post by Mark Zelden
the dlib volume instead (this is what I did years ago).
Part of my migration / cut over plan for after a "GO" decision when
migrating
Post by Mark Zelden
releases is to update the HMC SADUMP profile for that LPAR and to verify
AUTOIPL SADMP has been updated in DIAGxx to point to that proper
volume as well (this is staged already in a "migration parmlib"
concatenated ahead
Post by Mark Zelden
of the normal parmlib concatenation. So at any given time during OS
upgrade
Post by Mark Zelden
migration, some LPARs are pointing to one level of SADUMP and other LPARs
pointing to another level. It always matches the SADUMP for the OS
version.
Post by Mark Zelden
Regards,
Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
<http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html>
Post by Mark Zelden
Systems Programming expert at
http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
<http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/>
Post by Mark Zelden
==========================================================
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 22:11:33 +0000, Jesse 1 Robinson
Invitation for early Friday war stories.
When implementing (OS-moniker-du-jour) 1.6, we had several
catastrophic failures that required back out to previous level. We
took some SADs during that stormy period.
Post by Mark Zelden
When implementing z/OS 1.13, we had several instances of running
clean out of real storage! System hit a wait state, took SAD
automatically, then re-IPLed itself. That was entertaining.
Post by Mark Zelden
We more recently (under 2.1) took SAD and re-IPLed a hung system that
would probably have recovered if we had held off a bit longer. Heck,
Game of Thrones was on. How long were we supposed to wait? ;-)
Post by Mark Zelden
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Steely.Mark
Post by Mark Zelden
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a
SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.
Post by Mark Zelden
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Post by Mark Zelden
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD
My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our
sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before
full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild
SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were
missed. ;-)
Post by Mark Zelden
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Post by Mark Zelden
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible
within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid
creating that scenario.
Post by Mark Zelden
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
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or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a
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--
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Global Technology Services

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Edward Gould
2017-09-28 23:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark Jacobs - Listserv
<snip>
Mr. Murphy taught me a very long time ago that I should always ensure I have
a working SADUMP that matches the OS level requiring it.
<snip>
Agree. That's why I always rebuilt it after every zOS maintenance cycle, cause' ya never know.
Mark Jacobs
Mark,
I guess I am different and trust IBM more than you do.
If there isn’t a ++HOLD for recreation of the SA dump, then I don’t do so.
The only exception is if I am bringing up a new system, then its always done. By new system, I mean a complete system received from IBM.
I have never run into an instance where doing a lot of maintenance there isn’t a ++HOLD for a new SADUMP.

The worst number of years of maintenance was 5 (don’t ask).

Its been 25+ years since I have gotten a complete system build from IBM, so my memory might be faulty.

Essentially anytime I have to do a system load From IBM, I have always done one as stuff like that will bite you in your a** if you don’t.

A few years ago I was doing some work as a true contractor and I was amazed that the people who were to maintain the system after I left did not do a SADUMP redo.
I told the manager as I was leaving that he should get some experienced MVS people as the ones he had were not all that competent. He looked at me like I was trying to stay and I repeated to him that he needed to hire a experienced person that knew what they were doing. He said something like my people are experienced. I looked at him and said then you need to hire better people to make sure their manager doesn’t get bitten. Sure enough, I found out that they did not do a rebuild and it messed up the dump. I created a phony yahoo ID and emailed him and told him one last time that he needed to hire someone competent. I found out he finally hired a good person.

Ed

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Mark Jacobs - Listserv
2017-09-29 00:02:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I understand. Building of the SAD was a just another step in the sysres
build process. Easy enough and harmless to set and forget it. It was
always done, always up to date and I didn't have to worry about it.

Mark Jacobs
September 28, 2017 at 7:47 PM
Mark,
I guess I am different and trust IBM more than you do.
If there isn’t a ++HOLD for recreation of the SA dump, then I don’t do so.
The only exception is if I am bringing up a new system, then its
always done. By new system, I mean a complete system received from IBM.
I have never run into an instance where doing a lot of maintenance
there isn’t a ++HOLD for a new SADUMP.
The worst number of years of maintenance was 5 (don’t ask).
Its been 25+ years since I have gotten a complete system build from
IBM, so my memory might be faulty.
Essentially anytime I have to do a system load From IBM, I have always
done one as stuff like that will bite you in your a** if you don’t.
A few years ago I was doing some work as a true contractor and I was
amazed that the people who were to maintain the system after I left
did not do a SADUMP redo.
I told the manager as I was leaving that he should get some
experienced MVS people as the ones he had were not all that competent.
He looked at me like I was trying to stay and I repeated to him that
he needed to hire a experienced person that knew what they were doing.
He said something like my people are experienced. I looked at him and
said then you need to hire better people to make sure their manager
doesn’t get bitten. Sure enough, I found out that they did not do a
rebuild and it messed up the dump. I created a phony yahoo ID and
emailed him and told him one last time that he needed to hire someone
competent. I found out he finally hired a good person.
Ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a
phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send
September 28, 2017 at 12:56 PM
<snip>
Mr. Murphy taught me a very long time ago that I should always ensure I have
a working SADUMP that matches the OS level requiring it.
<snip>
Agree. That's why I always rebuilt it after every zOS maintenance
cycle, cause' ya never know.
Mark Jacobs
September 28, 2017 at 12:27 PM
I didn't respond to the "last time you took an SAD". It has been
probably 1.5
years at least since a prod / dev LPAR crashed and took an SAD via AUTOIPL,
but it does happen every few years it seems.
The other 2 times were more recent and involved sandbox LPARs. One was
just
a week ago when someone had removed a data set from LPA involving
CICS VR because the sandbox LPAR did not run CICS. The LPAR hadn't been
IPLed in over a month and the person who removed it didn't think that was the
reason for the wait state at IPL time. I was able to look at the
SADUMP and
figure it out. IBM supplies SYS1.SDWWDLPA with a dummy CICSVR module that
NIP looks for at IPL time and I had to add that back into LPA.
Mr. Murphy taught me a very long time ago that I should always ensure I have
a working SADUMP that matches the OS level requiring it.
Regards,
Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
<http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html>
Systems Programming expert at
http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
<http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/>
Post by Mark Zelden
I always put SADUMP for each OS release on the 2nd volume of my
maintenance
Post by Mark Zelden
sysres for each OS release (still using 3390-9s). I create an HMC
profile on each CPC for SADUMP at that time. If I was using a mod-27
or anything
Post by Mark Zelden
large enough where I didn't have a multi-volume sysres set, I would
just put it on
Post by Mark Zelden
the dlib volume instead (this is what I did years ago).
Part of my migration / cut over plan for after a "GO" decision when
migrating
Post by Mark Zelden
releases is to update the HMC SADUMP profile for that LPAR and to verify
AUTOIPL SADMP has been updated in DIAGxx to point to that proper
volume as well (this is staged already in a "migration parmlib"
concatenated ahead
Post by Mark Zelden
of the normal parmlib concatenation. So at any given time during OS
upgrade
Post by Mark Zelden
migration, some LPARs are pointing to one level of SADUMP and other LPARs
pointing to another level. It always matches the SADUMP for the OS
version.
Post by Mark Zelden
Regards,
Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
<http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html>
Post by Mark Zelden
Systems Programming expert at
http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
<http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/>
Post by Mark Zelden
==========================================================
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 22:11:33 +0000, Jesse 1 Robinson
Invitation for early Friday war stories.
When implementing (OS-moniker-du-jour) 1.6, we had several
catastrophic failures that required back out to previous level. We
took some SADs during that stormy period.
Post by Mark Zelden
When implementing z/OS 1.13, we had several instances of running
clean out of real storage! System hit a wait state, took SAD
automatically, then re-IPLed itself. That was entertaining.
Post by Mark Zelden
We more recently (under 2.1) took SAD and re-IPLed a hung system that
would probably have recovered if we had held off a bit longer. Heck,
Game of Thrones was on. How long were we supposed to wait? ;-)
Post by Mark Zelden
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Steely.Mark
Post by Mark Zelden
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
A little off topic - when is the last time anyone had to perform a
SAD ? I haven’t done one in 20+ years.
Post by Mark Zelden
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Post by Mark Zelden
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: DLIB volume for SAD
My comment was meant more for z/OS release upgrades. In some of our
sysplexes, we run both old and new releases for some period before
full migration. I guess it's somewhat risky, but we generally rebuild
SAD when the first member gets upgraded. If we were shot at, we were
missed. ;-)
Post by Mark Zelden
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Post by Mark Zelden
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM
Subject: (External):Re: DLIB volume for SAD
I don't know of any SADMP PTFs that were not downward compatible
within the same release of z/OS, and we would certainly try to avoid
creating that scenario.
Post by Mark Zelden
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
In addition the SAD IPL volume should in principle be compatible with
the level of z/OS that might use it. Periodically changes are made to
SAD by a PTF whose ++HOLD instructs you to rebuild SAD. It could
conceivably happen that an older level of z/OS might have trouble with
a higher level SAD IPL volume, but I've never seen it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
Please be alert for any emails that may ask you for login information
or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a
phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send
--
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Global Technology Services

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


----------------------------------------------------------------------
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