Discussion:
SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.
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John McKown
2018-06-07 13:01:56 UTC
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I may do the following in a "post processing" job for my SYSLOG archiving.
One thing which is "nasty" about z/OS, vs, z/VSE and other systems is that
it prefers to display the calendar date as year.day-in-year. IMNSHO, this
is a real PITA to people in the "real" world because nobody really much
cares what day it is since the start of the year. So SYSLOG/OPERLOG's use
of "yy.ddd" or "yyyy.ddd" is fairly useless, again, IMO. I do like what CA
does in some of their products which would be nice to have in these
facilities. They display the date as either dd/mm/yyyy.ddd or
mm/dd/yyyy.ddd . I think that having a new value for HCFORMAT(...) in the
CONSOLnn member would be nice. I don't really know, or particularily care,
what the keyword might be to do this.

Am I again going into deep left field? Should I just say "forget it" to IBM
and just do it myself?
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Charles Mills
2018-06-07 13:21:18 UTC
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Yeah, and further, they are called "Julian" dates in the Z community and that is a misnomer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day

I like one thing about them: they are compact. 18158 is the most compact (generally acceptable) way to represent June 7, 2018.

Here are conversion tables if you are interested: https://www.fs.fed.us/fire/partners/fepp/DODprogram/juliandate.htm

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 6:02 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

I may do the following in a "post processing" job for my SYSLOG archiving.
One thing which is "nasty" about z/OS, vs, z/VSE and other systems is that
it prefers to display the calendar date as year.day-in-year. IMNSHO, this
is a real PITA to people in the "real" world because nobody really much
cares what day it is since the start of the year. So SYSLOG/OPERLOG's use
of "yy.ddd" or "yyyy.ddd" is fairly useless, again, IMO. I do like what CA
does in some of their products which would be nice to have in these
facilities. They display the date as either dd/mm/yyyy.ddd or
mm/dd/yyyy.ddd . I think that having a new value for HCFORMAT(...) in the
CONSOLnn member would be nice. I don't really know, or particularily care,
what the keyword might be to do this.

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John McKown
2018-06-07 13:33:54 UTC
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Post by Charles Mills
Yeah, and further, they are called "Julian" dates in the Z community and
that is a misnomer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day
I like one thing about them: they are compact. 18158 is the most compact
(generally acceptable) way to represent June 7, 2018.
https://www.fs.fed.us/fire/partners/fepp/DODprogram/juliandate.htm
​Thanks for that URL. I have a short REXX program which will do it for me
using the DATE() builtin. What my user (really only one left now) would
really like would be something similar to: MM/DD/YYYY.JJJ MON ... She is
our single remaining production scheduler and sometimes peruses the SYSLOG
when researching jobs. Having all that information right there would really
help her.
Post by Charles Mills
Charles
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Charles Mills
2018-06-07 14:59:57 UTC
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I am just talking off the top of my head here but couldn't one write an SDSF macro where if the user positioned the cursor on a "Julian" date and hit the appropriate PF key, a pop-up would display the date in a more user-familiar format?

I know it burns me sometimes. I will do an F whatever PREV on the log and hit some problem and say "aha! X happened" only to finally realize it happened three days ago, and that fact did not jump out because "Julian" dates are not "intuitive."

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 6:33 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.
Post by Charles Mills
Yeah, and further, they are called "Julian" dates in the Z community and
that is a misnomer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day
I like one thing about them: they are compact. 18158 is the most compact
(generally acceptable) way to represent June 7, 2018.
https://www.fs.fed.us/fire/partners/fepp/DODprogram/juliandate.htm
​Thanks for that URL. I have a short REXX program which will do it for me
using the DATE() builtin. What my user (really only one left now) would
really like would be something similar to: MM/DD/YYYY.JJJ MON ... She is
our single remaining production scheduler and sometimes peruses the SYSLOG
when researching jobs. Having all that information right there would really
help her.

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Ed Jaffe
2018-06-07 15:14:19 UTC
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Post by Charles Mills
I am just talking off the top of my head here but couldn't one write an SDSF macro where if the user positioned the cursor on a "Julian" date and hit the appropriate PF key, a pop-up would display the date in a more user-familiar format?
The OP's dilemma was post-processing. An interactive "macro" won't help him.

For interactive users, simply look up at the title line. The date/time
at the current position is displayed there:

   Jobs  JES  System  Tools  Filter  View  Options  Help
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 SYSLOG  MVSA0/SA0 S0021365(SYSLOG00) 2018-05-27 14:48    Line 931302
of 931510
 Command ===> Scroll ===> CSR
 Current Find Text:                                          Dataset
519 of 530
<--3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7----+----8----+----9----+---10----+>
 14:48:50.82          00000281  IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
 14:48:50.83          00000281  IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
 14:48:50.84          00000281  IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
 14:48:50.85          00000281  IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
 14:48:50.86          00000281  IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
 14:48:50.87          00000281  IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
 14:49:10.89          00000080  IEE400I THESE MESSAGES CANCELLED - 0497.
 14:49:10.97          00000080  IEE400I THESE MESSAGES CANCELLED - 0499.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
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Charles Mills
2018-06-07 15:23:46 UTC
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I'll be darned! You learn something every day. Every good day anyway.

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 8:14 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.
Post by Charles Mills
I am just talking off the top of my head here but couldn't one write an SDSF macro where if the user positioned the cursor on a "Julian" date and hit the appropriate PF key, a pop-up would display the date in a more user-familiar format?
The OP's dilemma was post-processing. An interactive "macro" won't help him.

For interactive users, simply look up at the title line. The date/time
at the current position is displayed there:

Jobs JES System Tools Filter View Options Help
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SYSLOG MVSA0/SA0 S0021365(SYSLOG00) 2018-05-27 14:48 Line 931302
of 931510
Command ===> Scroll ===> CSR
Current Find Text: Dataset
519 of 530
<--3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7----+----8----+----9----+---10----+>
14:48:50.82 00000281 IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
14:48:50.83 00000281 IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
14:48:50.84 00000281 IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
14:48:50.85 00000281 IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
14:48:50.86 00000281 IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
14:48:50.87 00000281 IEA989I SLIP TRAP ID=X13E MATCHED.
JOBNAME=OMVS
14:49:10.89 00000080 IEE400I THESE MESSAGES CANCELLED - 0497.
14:49:10.97 00000080 IEE400I THESE MESSAGES CANCELLED - 0499.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe

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John McKown
2018-06-07 15:32:34 UTC
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Post by Charles Mills
Post by Charles Mills
I am just talking off the top of my head here but couldn't one write an
SDSF macro where if the user positioned the cursor on a "Julian" date and
hit the appropriate PF key, a pop-up would display the date in a more
user-familiar format?
The OP's dilemma was post-processing. An interactive "macro" won't help him.
​well, if might could if I told them to VIEW the DSN instead of BROWSEing
it. They could position the cursor on the date field of interest and I
could "pick it up" in a REXX macro. It would be better than what we have
now, which is nothing. ​I already post process the production syslog DSN,
on tape,
Post by Charles Mills
For interactive users, simply look up at the title line. The date/time
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Webster, Chris
2018-06-07 23:01:44 UTC
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In ISPF if you open the calendar in the status area and (for my setup) double click on the 'Day of year' a pop-up allows you to get any ddd/yyyy converted.

<paste>
------------------------ Standard Date ---------------------
Enter the day and year below:

Day . . . . 158 (Between 1 and 365 or 366 if leap year)
Year . . . 2018 (Between 1801 and 2099)

Day 158 of year 2018 is Thursday , 2018/06/07
</paste>

...chris.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: June-07-18 8:00 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

I am just talking off the top of my head here but couldn't one write an SDSF macro where if the user positioned the cursor on a "Julian" date and hit the appropriate PF key, a pop-up would display the date in a more user-familiar format?

I know it burns me sometimes. I will do an F whatever PREV on the log and hit some problem and say "aha! X happened" only to finally realize it happened three days ago, and that fact did not jump out because "Julian" dates are not "intuitive."

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 6:33 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.
Post by Charles Mills
Yeah, and further, they are called "Julian" dates in the Z community
and that is a misnomer.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_
wiki_Julian-5Fday&d=DwIFaQ&c=UrUhmHsiTVT5qkaA4d_oSzcamb9hmamiCDMzBAEwC
7E&r=RI5WP1BN1KW_B4HrO2twbFFOhk97OdY6xsy0TwKReZE&m=1q6EkLI-VpOT47EOois
SoCwovNIjq7Hbgpgf7j0K7is&s=bbbCPheZKUE3shBLIV8MTFQzfvPl8E09UhagbqTZyk0
&e=
I like one thing about them: they are compact. 18158 is the most
compact (generally acceptable) way to represent June 7, 2018.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.fs.fed.us_fir
e_partners_fepp_DODprogram_juliandate.htm&d=DwIFaQ&c=UrUhmHsiTVT5qkaA4
d_oSzcamb9hmamiCDMzBAEwC7E&r=RI5WP1BN1KW_B4HrO2twbFFOhk97OdY6xsy0TwKRe
ZE&m=1q6EkLI-VpOT47EOoisSoCwovNIjq7Hbgpgf7j0K7is&s=tXG7NQ58w3q04k_iWo4
HFC6nzdL4bNW0Ap335eYXJKM&e=
​Thanks for that URL. I have a short REXX program which will do it for me using the DATE() builtin. What my user (really only one left now) would really like would be something similar to: MM/DD/YYYY.JJJ MON ... She is our single remaining production scheduler and sometimes peruses the SYSLOG when researching jobs. Having all that information right there would really help her.

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Gord Tomlin
2018-06-07 14:42:27 UTC
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Post by John McKown
I do like what CA
does in some of their products which would be nice to have in these
facilities. They display the date as either dd/mm/yyyy.ddd or
mm/dd/yyyy.ddd . I think that having a new value for HCFORMAT(...) in the
CONSOLnn member would be nice.
If you're going to agitate for something like this, how about going for
the unambiguous ISO 8601 format yyyy-mm-dd, either instead of or in
addition to the ambiguous dd/mm/... or mm/dd/...

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Charles Mills
2018-06-07 15:00:36 UTC
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AMEN!!!

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gord Tomlin
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 7:42 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.
Post by John McKown
I do like what CA
does in some of their products which would be nice to have in these
facilities. They display the date as either dd/mm/yyyy.ddd or
mm/dd/yyyy.ddd . I think that having a new value for HCFORMAT(...) in the
CONSOLnn member would be nice.
If you're going to agitate for something like this, how about going for
the unambiguous ISO 8601 format yyyy-mm-dd, either instead of or in
addition to the ambiguous dd/mm/... or mm/dd/...

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John McKown
2018-06-07 15:06:12 UTC
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Post by Gord Tomlin
Post by John McKown
I do like what CA
does in some of their products which would be nice to have in these
facilities. They display the date as either dd/mm/yyyy.ddd or
mm/dd/yyyy.ddd . I think that having a new value for HCFORMAT(...) in the
CONSOLnn member would be nice.
If you're going to agitate for something like this, how about going for
​Me? Agitate?!? Surely you jest! {grin}​
Post by Gord Tomlin
the unambiguous ISO 8601 format yyyy-mm-dd, either instead of or in
addition to the ambiguous dd/mm/... or mm/dd/...
​I do like that, but I thought that mm/dd/yyyy.jjj (US) or dd/mm/yyyy.jjj
(non US) would be "better" than yyyy-mm-dd yyyy.jjj due to being shorter​
(14 vs 19 characters). I also think that yyyy-mm-dd.jjj or jjj.yyyy-mm-dd
just "looks weird". I also included the 3 character day of the week name
simply because the usual question from the person is "what day is that on
the calendar?" (Gregorian implied) followed immediately by "And what day of
the week was that on?"
Post by Gord Tomlin
--
Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Gord Tomlin
2018-06-07 15:38:20 UTC
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Post by John McKown
I thought that mm/dd/yyyy.jjj (US) or dd/mm/yyyy.jjj
(non US) would be "better"
For anyone that needs to look at US and non-US syslog output, this would
lead to unhappiness. Especially here in Canada where there is little
consistency in the use of dd/mm/yyyy or mm/dd/yyyy.

BTW, are we having this conversation on June 7 or July 6? ;)

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Steve Smith
2018-06-07 16:06:32 UTC
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Schedule international meetings only on unambiguous dates (6/6/18,
12/12/12...). :-) And don't say EST, when you really mean CST (i.e. EDT).

Obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1179/ Like grammar and spelling, you can do
what you want; but if you want to be understood, follow the standard.

sas

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 11:37 AM, Gord Tomlin <
Post by Gord Tomlin
Post by John McKown
I thought that mm/dd/yyyy.jjj (US) or dd/mm/yyyy.jjj
(non US) would be "better"
For anyone that needs to look at US and non-US syslog output, this would
lead to unhappiness. Especially here in Canada where there is little
consistency in the use of dd/mm/yyyy or mm/dd/yyyy.
BTW, are we having this conversation on June 7 or July 6? ;)
--
Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
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sas

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Steve Smith
2018-06-07 16:15:27 UTC
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It also helps if one is accurate. EDT == AST, not CST. Confused myself as
CDT == EST. Now everbody's confused, I hope.
Post by Steve Smith
Schedule international meetings only on unambiguous dates (6/6/18,
12/12/12...). :-) And don't say EST, when you really mean CST (i.e. EDT).
Obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1179/ Like grammar and spelling, you can do
what you want; but if you want to be understood, follow the standard.
sas
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John McKown
2018-06-07 16:10:52 UTC
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Post by Gord Tomlin
Post by John McKown
I thought that mm/dd/yyyy.jjj (US) or dd/mm/yyyy.jjj
(non US) would be "better"
For anyone that needs to look at US and non-US syslog output, this would
lead to unhappiness. Especially here in Canada where there is little
consistency in the use of dd/mm/yyyy or mm/dd/yyyy.
BTW, are we having this conversation on June 7 or July 6? ;)
​What?!? I thought it was still May! {grin}​

I really don't care exactly how the date is formatted. I just would like to
have four fields in some order: year, month, day, and day-of-year. I,
personally, use the ISO8601 (RFC3339 variant). E.g. right now, here in
Texas, it is 2018-06-07T11:09:30-05:00 . But I think that the ".jjj" needs
to be somewhere for historical reasons and because some people might
actually use it.
Post by Gord Tomlin
--
Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-10 10:39:48 UTC
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All log data, or any data for which there is a potential need to be able to sort it, should only ever display dates in a sort friendly way, such as the ISO format.
--
Peter Hunkeler




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Paul Gilmartin
2018-06-07 17:24:44 UTC
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Post by Gord Tomlin
Post by John McKown
I do like what CA
does in some of their products which would be nice to have in these
facilities. They display the date as either dd/mm/yyyy.ddd or
mm/dd/yyyy.ddd . I think that having a new value for HCFORMAT(...) in the
CONSOLnn member would be nice.
If you're going to agitate for something like this, how about going for
the unambiguous ISO 8601 format yyyy-mm-dd, either instead of or in
addition to the ambiguous dd/mm/... or mm/dd/...
+1
https://xkcd.com/1179/

-- gil

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Bruce Hewson
2018-06-10 03:33:05 UTC
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Knowing which date format you are viewing is always a pain for me - some system I support have mm/dd/yy and others have dd/mm/yy, and still others use yy/mm/dd.

I prefer, where possible, to us a 3 char MONTH abbreviation.

Then you know which is the MONTH.

and use a 4 digit YEAR.

leaving only a 2 or 3 digit day value.

Easy

Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 allows such on the status line.

&trantime %d/%b/%Y.%j %I:%M%p &hostaddr &hostname


Regards
Bruce Hewson

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Mike Beer
2018-06-10 03:47:07 UTC
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There is an ISO standard for the date:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> Im Auftrag von Bruce Hewson
Gesendet: 10 June, 2018 05:33
An: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

Knowing which date format you are viewing is always a pain for me - some system I support have mm/dd/yy and others have dd/mm/yy, and still others use yy/mm/dd.

I prefer, where possible, to us a 3 char MONTH abbreviation.

Then you know which is the MONTH.

and use a 4 digit YEAR.

leaving only a 2 or 3 digit day value.

Easy

Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 allows such on the status line.

&trantime %d/%b/%Y.%j %I:%M%p &hostaddr &hostname


Regards
Bruce Hewson

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Charles Mills
2018-06-10 21:19:35 UTC
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One (of many) advantage of which is that it sorts rationally.

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Beer
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 8:47 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

There is an ISO standard for the date:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

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John McKown
2018-06-12 13:28:34 UTC
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Post by Bruce Hewson
Knowing which date format you are viewing is always a pain for me - some
system I support have mm/dd/yy and others have dd/mm/yy, and still others
use yy/mm/dd.
I prefer, where possible, to us a 3 char MONTH abbreviation.
Then you know which is the MONTH.
and use a 4 digit YEAR.
leaving only a 2 or 3 digit day value.
​That's what I put on my checks: 6 May 2018. But, at least stored in a text
form in a computer, I use ISO-8601 (or RFC3339) format. Unambiguous and
directly sortable.
Post by Bruce Hewson
Easy
Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 allows such on the status line.
&trantime %d/%b/%Y.%j %I:%M%p &hostaddr &hostname
Regards
Bruce Hewson
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A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

Emo Philips

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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