Discussion:
Number of Cylinders per Volume
(too old to reply)
Mazer Ken G
2018-01-09 12:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
While configuring CKD storage on a new IBM DS8880 I discovered that the default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.

I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up getting 30,051 cylinders.
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the default number of cylinders is 60,102.

These new calculations are now divisible evenly by 1113, a 3390 Mod-1

If you have a need to define these two volumes sizes please keep this in mind as this could cause serious issues when trying to migrate from the older volume sizes to the newer sizes.
I did find the new smaller sizes documented in the DS8870 & DS8880 Architecture and Implementation Redbooks.

Ken Mazer

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-09 13:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
1. This is default, it can be changed.
2. The rationale behind the change is the space is allocated in "chunks"
of 1113 cylinder, so 32760 means one looses 630 cyl for every volume
(and 147 cyl for mod-54).  From the other hand there is nothing magic in
"round numbers" like 32760 or 65520.
3. "Serious issues" during migration could happen or not. For dataset
migration no issues. For volume migration an pair "old-new" has to be
consistent which may be inefficient.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Mazer Ken G
While configuring CKD storage on a new IBM DS8880 I discovered that the default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.
I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up getting 30,051 cylinders.
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the default number of cylinders is 60,102.
These new calculations are now divisible evenly by 1113, a 3390 Mod-1
If you have a need to define these two volumes sizes please keep this in mind as this could cause serious issues when trying to migrate from the older volume sizes to the newer sizes.
I did find the new smaller sizes documented in the DS8870 & DS8880 Architecture and Implementation Redbooks.
Ken Mazer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
.
======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
2018-01-09 13:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
1. No problem, defaults are there to be overruled.
2. I don't understand the new value, we use the largest non-EAV volumes on our '3390-58's, with 64554 Cyls, which is 58 chunks of 3390-01's.
3. Indeed.

Kees.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: 09 January, 2018 14:06
Subject: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
1. This is default, it can be changed.
2. The rationale behind the change is the space is allocated in "chunks"
of 1113 cylinder, so 32760 means one looses 630 cyl for every volume
(and 147 cyl for mod-54).  From the other hand there is nothing magic in
"round numbers" like 32760 or 65520.
3. "Serious issues" during migration could happen or not. For dataset
migration no issues. For volume migration an pair "old-new" has to be
consistent which may be inefficient.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Mazer Ken G
While configuring CKD storage on a new IBM DS8880 I discovered that
the default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Post by Mazer Ken G
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.
I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case
anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up
getting 30,051 cylinders.
Post by Mazer Ken G
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the
default number of cylinders is 60,102.
Post by Mazer Ken G
These new calculations are now divisible evenly by 1113, a 3390 Mod-1
If you have a need to define these two volumes sizes please keep this
in mind as this could cause serious issues when trying to migrate from
the older volume sizes to the newer sizes.
Post by Mazer Ken G
I did find the new smaller sizes documented in the DS8870 & DS8880
Architecture and Implementation Redbooks.
Post by Mazer Ken G
Ken Mazer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
.
======================================================================
--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być
jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie
jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do
jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie,
kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze
jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę
wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając
odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej
kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.
This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and
is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may
only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third
parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the
employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any
dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is
legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by
mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility
in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any
copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.
mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,
XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru
przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na
dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony)
wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
********************************************************
For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message.

Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt.
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286
********************************************************

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ron hawkins
2018-01-09 15:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Last time I looked they were all 3390-9... (GD&R).

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mazer Ken G
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:50 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] Number of Cylinders per Volume

While configuring CKD storage on a new IBM DS8880 I discovered that the
default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.

I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case
anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up
getting 30,051 cylinders.
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the default
number of cylinders is 60,102.

These new calculations are now divisible evenly by 1113, a 3390 Mod-1

If you have a need to define these two volumes sizes please keep this in
mind as this could cause serious issues when trying to migrate from the
older volume sizes to the newer sizes.
I did find the new smaller sizes documented in the DS8870 & DS8880
Architecture and Implementation Redbooks.

Ken Mazer

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ed Jaffe
2018-01-09 17:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mazer Ken G
While configuring CKD storage on a new IBM DS8880 I discovered that the default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.
I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up getting 30,051 cylinders.
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the default number of cylinders is 60,102.
These new calculations are now divisible evenly by 1113, a 3390 Mod-1
Changed?! No. "Mod-x" capacities have always been multiples of Mod-1
since day #1.

Mod-3 is 3X. Mod-9 is 9X. Mod-27 is 27X and so forth. Our largest
volumes are Mod-216s. They are 216X.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-01-09 18:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vernooij, Kees - KLM , ITOPT1
1. No problem, defaults are there to be overruled.
2. I don't understand the new value, we use the largest non-EAV volumes on our '3390-58's, with 64554 Cyls, which is 58 chunks of 3390-01's.
3. Indeed
Post by Mazer Ken G
the default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Post by Mazer Ken G
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.
I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case
anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up
getting 30,051 cylinders.
Post by Mazer Ken G
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the
default number of cylinders is 60,102.
That happens to be 54 Mod-1s, by my reckoning.

Is there a rationale for that value? Some mystique about the number 54
as opposed to be 58?

A fortiori, what rationale for changing a default, which IBM is ordinarily loath to do?

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Jesse 1 Robinson
2018-01-09 22:19:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I'm not a DASD guy and have never been involved in setting up or initializing an array box, but I can see that our Mod9 sysres volumes have a capacity of 10,016 cylinders. That is one cylinder shy of 9x a mythical Mod1 as described. It's not 9x any integer at all.

The most important thing for any shop is to make new ModX volumes the same size as old ModX volumes in order to TDMF or otherwise copy volumes from old to new.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2018 9:41 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Mazer Ken G
While configuring CKD storage on a new IBM DS8880 I discovered that the default number of cylinders for a 3390-27 and a 3390-54 has changed.
Caution should be taken when your defining new storage.
I've always assumed that a 3390-27 had 32,760 cylinders. Not the case anymore, if using the GUI and the DISK or Mod1 calculations. You end up getting 30,051 cylinders.
I've also assumed that a 3390-54 had 65,520 cylinders. Now the default number of cylinders is 60,102.
These new calculations are now divisible evenly by 1113, a 3390 Mod-1
Changed?! No. "Mod-x" capacities have always been multiples of Mod-1 since day #1.

Mod-3 is 3X. Mod-9 is 9X. Mod-27 is 27X and so forth. Our largest volumes are Mod-216s. They are 216X.

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Steve Smith
2018-01-09 22:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The reason for the games is that the cylinder number has traditionally
been a half-word... Mod-"27"s went as far as possible treating it as a
signed number, and Mod-"54"s to the unsigned limit.

If IBM can't move away from this archaic dependence on defining
imaginary geometries of imaginary DASD, why don't they invent a new
imaginary device with say 127 tracks per cylinder, 128K bytes/track?
With 64K tracks, you could store almost a terabyte on one volume.

sas

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Mike Schwab
2018-01-09 22:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
EAV volumes must be an exact multiple of 1,113 cylinders. Under 64K
volumes some storage devices allow multiple of 1,113 cylinders others
multiples of 1 cylinder.
Post by Steve Smith
The reason for the games is that the cylinder number has traditionally
been a half-word... Mod-"27"s went as far as possible treating it as a
signed number, and Mod-"54"s to the unsigned limit.
If IBM can't move away from this archaic dependence on defining
imaginary geometries of imaginary DASD, why don't they invent a new
imaginary device with say 127 tracks per cylinder, 128K bytes/track?
With 64K tracks, you could store almost a terabyte on one volume.
sas
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-10 11:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Schwab
EAV volumes must be an exact multiple of 1,113 cylinders. Under 64K
volumes some storage devices allow multiple of 1,113 cylinders others
multiples of 1 cylinder.
AFAIK it's not.
1113 multiple is a feature of DS8k arrays.
EAV can be any number of cylinders, but EAS (the part above 65520 cyl)
should be multiple of MCU (MCU=21 cyl).
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Edward Gould
2018-01-10 17:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R.S.
Post by Mike Schwab
EAV volumes must be an exact multiple of 1,113 cylinders. Under 64K
volumes some storage devices allow multiple of 1,113 cylinders others
multiples of 1 cylinder.
AFAIK it's not.
1113 multiple is a feature of DS8k arrays.
EAV can be any number of cylinders, but EAS (the part above 65520 cyl) should be multiple of MCU (MCU=21 cyl).
Radoslav:

I am not sure I have heard any such promise. The only promise I have ever heard that if you are fully SMS any change in geometry would be unfelt, i.e. no JCL changes.

Ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ron hawkins
2018-01-11 03:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
With Hitachi DP-Vols each 7 cyl control area manages 1113 cyls of usable
space per volume. The 3390-A volumes, however, do not have to be allocated
in units of 1113 cyls. You can specify any custom size volume you want in
cylinder units.

The 1120 cyls is allocated in 672 track pages, and the 7 cyls control area
is in the first page. The control area has things like record zero, bitmaps,
etc.

The pages are not allocated contiguously on the media, and there can be gaps
of unallocated pages if nothing is written to them. For a simple example, a
1344 track data set with 1300 unused tracks will only allocate one page, and
the next data set starting on track 1345 will be on a new page. The page for
track 673 to 1344 will not be used in the pool.

There is a huge impact on SMS if track geometry changes, because it is used
for allocation. Look at bytes/track in the Base Configuration.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:18 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by R.S.
Post by Mike Schwab
EAV volumes must be an exact multiple of 1,113 cylinders. Under 64K
volumes some storage devices allow multiple of 1,113 cylinders others
multiples of 1 cylinder.
AFAIK it's not.
1113 multiple is a feature of DS8k arrays.
EAV can be any number of cylinders, but EAS (the part above 65520 cyl)
should be multiple of MCU (MCU=21 cyl).

Radoslav:

I am not sure I have heard any such promise. The only promise I have ever
heard that if you are fully SMS any change in geometry would be unfelt, i.e.
no JCL changes.

Ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-11 12:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Edward Gould
Post by R.S.
Post by Mike Schwab
EAV volumes must be an exact multiple of 1,113 cylinders. Under 64K
volumes some storage devices allow multiple of 1,113 cylinders others
multiples of 1 cylinder.
AFAIK it's not.
1113 multiple is a feature of DS8k arrays.
EAV can be any number of cylinders, but EAS (the part above 65520 cyl) should be multiple of MCU (MCU=21 cyl).
I am not sure I have heard any such promise. The only promise I have ever heard that if you are fully SMS any change in geometry would be unfelt, i.e. no JCL changes.
Ed:
I am sure I had read that. Of course such promise can be broken in the
future (why not?), but whole idea of so called mod-27, mod-54 and
finally EAV was to extend volume size with no change to geometry.

(speculation mode)
IMHO the most likely change in the future we can expect is CKD - > FBA
migration. Unless FBA storage world will change current FBA model to
something, let's say "more flash lilely". For example FBA world changed
(actually came back *) the sector size which was 512B net for ages and
now it's commonly extended to 4096kB. That introduces some
incompatibility problems.
(*) bigger sector sizes were used in magneto-optical removable media
drives. With big pain for some Unix systems and not only.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Edward Gould
2018-01-11 15:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I am sure I had read that. Of course such promise can be broken in the future (why not?), but whole idea of so called mod-27, mod-54 and finally EAV was to extend volume size with no change to geometry.
(speculation mode)
IMHO the most likely change in the future we can expect is CKD - > FBA migration. Unless FBA storage world will change current FBA model to something, let's say "more flash lilely". For example FBA world changed (actually came back *) the sector size which was 512B net for ages and now it's commonly extended to 4096kB. That introduces some incompatibility problems.
(*) bigger sector sizes were used in magneto-optical removable media drives. With big pain for some Unix systems and not only.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Radoslaw:

I was a project manager at Guide in the 90’s for storage. I vaguely remember being invited to San Jose (as part of SHARE+side story at bottom). IBM supposedly laid out their 10 year plan for DASD. Here is where it gets a little fuzzy. I believe the “future” was to be SMS PERIOD. IBM during one of the small sessions said that by being completely SMS you would no longer care about device geometry as long as you used the IBM SDB and the appropriate space allocations. I was a "not in my lifetime person after the session". I talked with the other project managers and they had reservations as well but after years and years of changing track size and block size issues and getting gray hair along the line I think we were happy to finally rid ourselves of one more PITA. At the time (IIRC) not all of the new SMS features were available. We were told to hold on it was being worked on.

To complete the story, I am a semi believer never made it to 100 percent believer.

Now the side story: One (or two?) project managers were employed by OEM vendors. IBM put a restriction of attendance that if you were a OEM vendor you couldn’t attend. Its been so long that I do not remember if IBM backed down or the people were disinvited or what.

Ed


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Peter Hunkeler
2018-01-11 18:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
For example FBA world changed (actually came back *) the sector size which was 512B net for ages and
now it's commonly extended to 4096kB.



I think that should say 4KiB, not 4096KiB. 4MiB would seem to waste an awful lot of storage.


--
Peter Hunkeler





----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-12 00:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R.S.
For example FBA world changed (actually came back *) the sector size which was 512B net for ages and
now it's commonly extended to 4096kB.
I think that should say 4KiB, not 4096KiB. 4MiB would seem to waste an awful lot of storage.
OK, OK, you got me ;-)
Of course I meant 4096B which is 4KiB which is commonly described as 4kB.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB. However the basic part
of EAV disk is still "track managed", which means the smallest chunk
addressable is 56664B. Still more than 4kB.

Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Mike Schwab
2018-01-09 23:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The EAV specs are taking the high 12 bits of the head field in CCHHR
field in count record to extend the cylinder field. The first step
allowed 4 * 64K cylinders, the second step currently allows 16*64K
cylinders, it will eventually allow 4K * 64K cylinders.
Post by Steve Smith
The reason for the games is that the cylinder number has traditionally
been a half-word... Mod-"27"s went as far as possible treating it as a
signed number, and Mod-"54"s to the unsigned limit.
If IBM can't move away from this archaic dependence on defining
imaginary geometries of imaginary DASD, why don't they invent a new
imaginary device with say 127 tracks per cylinder, 128K bytes/track?
With 64K tracks, you could store almost a terabyte on one volume.
sas
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-10 11:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve Smith
The reason for the games is that the cylinder number has traditionally
been a half-word... Mod-"27"s went as far as possible treating it as a
signed number, and Mod-"54"s to the unsigned limit.
If IBM can't move away from this archaic dependence on defining
imaginary geometries of imaginary DASD, why don't they invent a new
imaginary device with say 127 tracks per cylinder, 128K bytes/track?
With 64K tracks, you could store almost a terabyte on one volume.
That would be change of "volume geometry". It's not so easy for
customers and would require many changes.
That's why IBM promised long time ago the 3390 would be the last geometry.
So 15 trk/cyl and 56664B/trk are saint. ;-)
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Tom Marchant
2018-01-12 12:14:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you
have a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments
of 21 cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
--
Tom Marchant

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-12 13:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you
have a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments
of 21 cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50
cyl datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ron hawkins
2018-01-13 18:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Radoslaw,

That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.

DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.

I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.

EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%

EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%

EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%

You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point for your shop when you go EAV.

options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;

%let BPV=20;

Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; *** Main Output Title ;

FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';

proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;

proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;

%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;

data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;

title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;

title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;

proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;

data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste percent16.1
;
run;


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl datasets is ~20%.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-13 20:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a
solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need
to be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200
000 datasets are created during EOD.

Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's  usually not-so-many
datasets, but big or huge ones.
Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV
volumes or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).

Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; *** Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Mike Schwab
2018-01-13 20:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
z/OS does have Small Data Set Packing. Puts datasets under your exit
size limit into a VSAM KSDS. For another storage pool, we did run
into problems with not enough entries in the VTOC, so we created
smaller volumes with large VTOCs.
Post by R.S.
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a
solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need to
be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200 000
datasets are created during EOD.
Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's usually not-so-many
datasets, but big or huge ones.
Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV volumes
or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).
Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you
need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code
is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this
is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point
for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic
nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; ***
Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste
percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl
datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================
--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być
jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś
adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej
przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie,
rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie
zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo,
prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale
usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub
zapisane na dysku.
This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If
you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized
to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying,
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved
to hard drive.
mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców
KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r.
kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696
złotych.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-13 21:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
SDSP?
Isn't it a feature of DFSMShsm?
We're using it for ML1 purposes, I'm not aware of any other purpose,
including "ML0".

BTW: It is not my problem, I just heard about it. In my opinion it would
be wise to review the application in order to reduce the number of
datasets created.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Mike Schwab
z/OS does have Small Data Set Packing. Puts datasets under your exit
size limit into a VSAM KSDS. For another storage pool, we did run
into problems with not enough entries in the VTOC, so we created
smaller volumes with large VTOCs.
Post by R.S.
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a
solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need to
be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200 000
datasets are created during EOD.
Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's usually not-so-many
datasets, but big or huge ones.
Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV volumes
or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).
Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you
need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code
is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this
is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point
for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic
nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; ***
Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste
percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl
datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Mike Schwab
2018-01-14 01:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
That's right, ML1 can use SDSP. Sorry.
Post by R.S.
SDSP?
Isn't it a feature of DFSMShsm?
We're using it for ML1 purposes, I'm not aware of any other purpose,
including "ML0".
BTW: It is not my problem, I just heard about it. In my opinion it would be
wise to review the application in order to reduce the number of datasets
created.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Mike Schwab
z/OS does have Small Data Set Packing. Puts datasets under your exit
size limit into a VSAM KSDS. For another storage pool, we did run
into problems with not enough entries in the VTOC, so we created
smaller volumes with large VTOCs.
Post by R.S.
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a
solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need to
be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200 000
datasets are created during EOD.
Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's usually not-so-many
datasets, but big or huge ones.
Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV volumes
or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).
Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you
need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code
is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this
is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point
for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic
nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders";
***
Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste
percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl
datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================
--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być
jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś
adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej
przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie,
rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie
zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo,
prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale
usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub
zapisane na dysku.
This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If
you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized
to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying,
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved
to hard drive.
mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców
KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r.
kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696
złotych.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ron hawkins
2018-01-14 09:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Radoslaw,



I'm not sure I follow. I replied to your example that specifically talked to datasets of 50cyl allocated in CMA. I assume you chose 50 rather than 10, because 10 is the default BPV.



If your shop has a preponderance of datasets between 10 and 50 cyls then change the BPV so they are track managed. Then the waste is 0% and it addresses your example exactly. You would find this skew in the univariate output. In my sample data, the 95th percentile is 38.9 cyl.




Quantiles (Definition 5)


Level

Quantile


100% Max

5.02530E+04


99%

3.60866E+02


95%

3.89331E+01


90%

1.60667E+01


75% Q3

2.26616E+00


50% Median

1.99991E-01


25% Q1

6.62619E-02


10%

6.62619E-02


5%

6.62619E-02


1%

0.00000E+00


0% Min

0.00000E+00



The creation of 200,000 small datasets, where I think you mean less than 1 track, is not an EAV problem. You're talking about200,000 tracks of space per day, or 42 2290-54 per year. 200K tracks is less than the track managed area of a single volume so I don't see the problem. There would have to be an overpaid storage admin for these datasets to end up in the cylinder managed area.



Even fragmentation can't stop you allocating trk(1) in the TMA. There are better options with less waste suggested by Mike and Gil, and I've seen exact matches to this other problem you described with Control/D solved with SDSP.



Ron



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:20 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume



Ron,

While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a solution for a need I described.

I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need to be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200

000 datasets are created during EOD.



Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's usually not-so-many datasets, but big or huge ones.

Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV volumes or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).



Regards

--

Radoslaw Skorupka

Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; *** Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================





--

Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.



This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.



mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, <http://www.mBank.pl> www.mBank.pl, e-mail: <mailto:***@mBank.plSąd> ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.





----------------------------------------------------------------------

For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

send email to <mailto:***@listserv.ua.edu> ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ron hawkins
2018-01-14 14:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Oops, forgot about plain text formatting. I hope this is easier to read.

Quantiles (Definition 5)
Level Quantile
100% Max 5.02530E+04
99% 3.60866E+02
95% 3.89331E+01
90% 1.60667E+01
75% Q3 2.26616E+00
50% Median 1.99991E-01
25% Q1 6.62619E-02
10% 6.62619E-02
5% 6.62619E-02
1% 0.00000E+00
0% Min 0.00000E+00

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ron hawkins
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 1:28 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume

Radoslaw,



I'm not sure I follow. I replied to your example that specifically talked to datasets of 50cyl allocated in CMA. I assume you chose 50 rather than 10, because 10 is the default BPV.



If your shop has a preponderance of datasets between 10 and 50 cyls then change the BPV so they are track managed. Then the waste is 0% and it addresses your example exactly. You would find this skew in the univariate output. In my sample data, the 95th percentile is 38.9 cyl.




Quantiles (Definition 5)


Level

Quantile


100% Max

5.02530E+04


99%

3.60866E+02


95%

3.89331E+01


90%

1.60667E+01


75% Q3

2.26616E+00


50% Median

1.99991E-01


25% Q1

6.62619E-02


10%

6.62619E-02


5%

6.62619E-02


1%

0.00000E+00


0% Min

0.00000E+00



The creation of 200,000 small datasets, where I think you mean less than 1 track, is not an EAV problem. You're talking about200,000 tracks of space per day, or 42 2290-54 per year. 200K tracks is less than the track managed area of a single volume so I don't see the problem. There would have to be an overpaid storage admin for these datasets to end up in the cylinder managed area.



Even fragmentation can't stop you allocating trk(1) in the TMA. There are better options with less waste suggested by Mike and Gil, and I've seen exact matches to this other problem you described with Control/D solved with SDSP.



Ron



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:20 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume



Ron,

While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a solution for a need I described.

I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need to be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200

000 datasets are created during EOD.



Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's usually not-so-many datasets, but big or huge ones.

Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV volumes or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).



Regards

--

Radoslaw Skorupka

Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic
nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; *** Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in
Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================





--

Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.



This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.



mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, <http://www.mBank.pl> www.mBank.pl, e-mail: <mailto:***@mBank.plSąd> ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.





----------------------------------------------------------------------

For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

send email to <mailto:***@listserv.ua.edu> ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
R.S.
2018-01-14 18:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ron,

As I said twice, the issue is real, but it is not my problem.

I know a little about it, actually my colleague just told me about ICF
challenges. I know rough number of datasets and the total space occupied
is not so huge (datasets are relatively small - dozens of cylinders,
maybe single hundreds).
Since it is not my problem, I cannot discuss what solution would be
applicable or provide more details.

Remark:
* both Unix files and PDSE member are good for small datasets,
especially very small ones, BUT the majority of those datasets are kept
for limited period, so one would need some replacement fo DFSMShsm
features: backup, migration, expiration.

BTW: Isn't it funny there is no DFSMS for Unix files?

Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Oops, forgot about plain text formatting. I hope this is easier to read.
Quantiles (Definition 5)
Level Quantile
100% Max 5.02530E+04
99% 3.60866E+02
95% 3.89331E+01
90% 1.60667E+01
75% Q3 2.26616E+00
50% Median 1.99991E-01
25% Q1 6.62619E-02
10% 6.62619E-02
5% 6.62619E-02
1% 0.00000E+00
0% Min 0.00000E+00
Ron
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Radoslaw,
I'm not sure I follow. I replied to your example that specifically talked to datasets of 50cyl allocated in CMA. I assume you chose 50 rather than 10, because 10 is the default BPV.
If your shop has a preponderance of datasets between 10 and 50 cyls then change the BPV so they are track managed. Then the waste is 0% and it addresses your example exactly. You would find this skew in the univariate output. In my sample data, the 95th percentile is 38.9 cyl.
Quantiles (Definition 5)
Level
Quantile
100% Max
5.02530E+04
99%
3.60866E+02
95%
3.89331E+01
90%
1.60667E+01
75% Q3
2.26616E+00
50% Median
1.99991E-01
25% Q1
6.62619E-02
10%
6.62619E-02
5%
6.62619E-02
1%
0.00000E+00
0% Min
0.00000E+00
The creation of 200,000 small datasets, where I think you mean less than 1 track, is not an EAV problem. You're talking about200,000 tracks of space per day, or 42 2290-54 per year. 200K tracks is less than the track managed area of a single volume so I don't see the problem. There would have to be an overpaid storage admin for these datasets to end up in the cylinder managed area.
Even fragmentation can't stop you allocating trk(1) in the TMA. There are better options with less waste suggested by Mike and Gil, and I've seen exact matches to this other problem you described with Control/D solved with SDSP.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need to be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200
000 datasets are created during EOD.
Of course when we talk about big storage needs it's usually not-so-many datasets, but big or huge ones.
Last, but not least, we have limited choice - up to 64(-256) non-EAV volumes or bigger EAV volumes (with the same limit for quantity).
Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
Post by Ron hawkins
Radoslaw,
That's why you can change the threshold for the track allocation area.
DCOLLECT and PROC UNIVARIATE will probably give you all the guidance you need. DCOLLECT does not have the primary space allocation size so this code is not 100% accurate. It is good enough to give some guidance.
I executed this against one of our general purpose lab systems, and this is the CMA waste estimate with break point value at 5, 10 and 20 cylinders.
EAV Breakpointvalue 10 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 610787.607878009
Percent Wasted CMA 8.1%
EAV Breakpointvalue 5 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 783635.165880735
Percent Wasted CMA 10.4%
EAV Breakpointvalue 20 Cylinders
Total Used Cylinders 7516066.07911661
Total Wasted Cylinders 309321.636811143
Percent Wasted CMA 4.1%
You could use SAS code like this to come up with a good starting point for your shop when you go EAV.
options obs=max bufno=256 nosource2 nomacrogen nosymbolgen nomlogic
nomprint sortsize=6G msglevel=i;
goptions reset=all;
%let BPV=20;
Title1 "EAV Breakpoint Value &BPV Cylinders"; *** Main Output Title ;
FILENAME DCOLLECT FTP (
"MY.DCOL'"
)
USER='myuid' HOST='111.222.333.444' DEBUG
S370VS RCMD='SITE RDW' LRECL=32760
PASS='mypw';
proc datasets lib=pdb kill noprint;
run;quit;
proc datasets lib=work kill noprint;
run;quit;
%include sourclib(typedcol);
run;
data dcolsp;
set dcoldset;
usedcyl=dcdusesp/(15*56664);
if usedcyl>&BPV then wastecyl=mod(usedcyl,21);
output;return;
run;
title2 "Data set size distribution in Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
title2 "Cylinder Managed Area - Data set size distribution in
Cylinders";
proc univariate data=dcolsp;
where usedcyl>&bpv;
var usedcyl;
histogram;
run;
proc summary data=dcolsp nway;
var usedcyl wastecyl;
output out=dcolsum
sum=
;
run;
data _null_;
set dcolsum;
pctwaste=wastecyl/usedcyl;
put "EAV Breakpointvalue &BPV Cylinders"
/ "Total Used Cylinders " usedcyl best16.
/ "Total Wasted Cylinders " wastecyl best16.
/ "Percent Wasted CMA " pctwaste percent16.1
;
run;
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by Tom Marchant
Post by R.S.
BTW: an "awful waste of storage" is MCU on EAS which is 21 cyl. (315
trk). It is much more than 4kB and more than 4MB.
Not such a big deal for very large data sets, which are the most
appropriate ones to go into the cylinder-managed space. When you have
a quarter of a million cylinders, allocating space on increments of 21
cylinders isn't so bad, IMO.
Of course. However sometimes people need a lot of not-so-big datasets.
For ~1000 cyl datasets average lost is ~1% ( (21/2)/1000 ), but for 50 cyl datasets is ~20%.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
======================================================================
--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.
This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
.
======================================================================


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: ***@mBank.plSąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-01-13 21:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R.S.
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not a
solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets need
to be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where ~200
000 datasets are created during EOD.
PDS(E) members? UNIX files? Why not?

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Ron hawkins
2018-01-14 08:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Paul,

Agree. zFS leaps out as an option immediately.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 1:38 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] AW: Re: Number of Cylinders per Volume
Post by R.S.
Ron,
While your solution can keep "small" datasets away from EAS, it is not
a solution for a need I described.
I mean a scenarion when many thousands of relatively small datasets
need to be kept on disk. Colleague of mine administer a system, where
~200
000 datasets are created during EOD.
PDS(E) members? UNIX files? Why not?

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-01-14 22:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R.S.
* both Unix files and PDSE member are good for small datasets,
especially very small ones, BUT the majority of those datasets are kept
for limited period, so one would need some replacement fo DFSMShsm
features: backup, migration, expiration.
BTW: Isn't it funny there is no DFSMS for Unix files?
Solaris has somthing of the sort. I've occasionally got "File is temporarily unavailable."
Fifteen seconds later it opens.

IBM is just behind the curve.

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
2018-01-15 00:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Gilmartin
Solaris has somthing of the sort. I've occasionally got "File is temporarily unavailable."
Fifteen seconds later it opens.
IBM is just behind the curve.
isn't that part of what ADSM/TSM is suppose to do
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Tivoli_Storage_Manager
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Tivoli_Storage_Manager#Data_Sources

Other data injectors include policy-based hierarchical storage
management (HSM) components for AIX, Linux and Windows. These allow
migration of data from production disk into one or more of the TSM
storage hierarchies while maintaining transparent access to that data by
the use of DMAPI or NTFS reparse points.

... snip ...

I had originally done the implementation in the late 70s for
internal datacenters as CMSBACK ... some old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#cmsback
and posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#backup

it went thru a number of internal releases before being enhanced for
supporting distributed computing (workstations, unix PCs, etc) and
released to customers as workstation data save (WDSF).

It was then picked up by AdStar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adstar

becoming ADSM, i.e. IBM was being re-orged into the 13 baby blues in
preparation for breaking up the company, the disk division was one of
the business units that was furthest along. I've frequently mentioned
that the disk division in the late 80s had been claiming that the
communication group was going to be responsible for the demise of the
disk division ... becuase of it constantly vetoing disk division
advanced support for real distributed computing (communicatio group
trying to preserve the communication dumb termainal paradigm and install
base) ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#terminal

trivia: we did some distributed computing & open system projects with
the adstar VP of software, who also funded the original project
supporting POSIX on MVS.
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idan400/cpn2co70.htm

but were almost constantly at war with the communication group.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Loading...