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ShopZ order response
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Nightwatch RenBand
2017-10-05 16:16:19 UTC
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On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I
received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail
or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving
messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?

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Richards, Robert B.
2017-10-05 16:33:19 UTC
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Good question. However, I did not hear last Friday (original delivery date) about anyone talking about z/OS 2.3. Perhaps shipment has been delayed. If it has been, that might explain why the status has remained "Manufacturing". Otherwise, you may want to try emailing this link: SWG ESW ShopCat L2 Support ***@dk.ibm.com

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: ShopZ order response

On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?

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Allan Staller
2017-10-05 16:39:21 UTC
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Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response

Good question. However, I did not hear last Friday (original delivery date) about anyone talking about z/OS 2.3. Perhaps shipment has been delayed. If it has been, that might explain why the status has remained "Manufacturing". Otherwise, you may want to try emailing this link: SWG ESW ShopCat L2 Support ***@dk.ibm.com

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: ShopZ order response

On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?

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John Eells
2017-10-06 11:20:45 UTC
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More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get
z/OS, at least.

What kind of ServerPac turnaround time do people:

- Expect?
- Really need?

...for z/OS orders?
Post by Allan Staller
Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
Bob
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: ShopZ order response
On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?
<snip>
--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Jousma, David
2017-10-06 11:53:49 UTC
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Weeks is fine by me. I always order earlier than needed anyway. What's the rush, anyway? CBPDO's on the other hand already come out pretty quick, unless you are waiting on a licensing issue.

_________________________________________________________________
Dave Jousma
Manager Mainframe Engineering, Assistant Vice President
***@53.com
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.2717

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:22 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

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More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get z/OS, at least.

What kind of ServerPac turnaround time do people:

- Expect?
- Really need?

...for z/OS orders?
Post by Allan Staller
Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
Bob
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: ShopZ order response
On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?
<snip>

--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Richards, Robert B.
2017-10-06 13:31:25 UTC
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John,

I am spoiled. I expect it to be ready for download within minutes or a few hours. Yesterday, a ten gigabyte RSU1709 took ten minutes to send me the package details. I submitted the RFN and it took almost seven hours to download. That is my expectation. :-)

Reality need? Order one day, submit on light weekday or on weekend. Restart at last known good point, if needed.

Anything across the network beats the heck out of snail mail and I know you guys are trying to do away with the physical media!

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:22 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response

More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get z/OS, at least.

What kind of ServerPac turnaround time do people:

- Expect?
- Really need?

...for z/OS orders?
Post by Allan Staller
Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
Bob
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: ShopZ order response
On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?
<snip>

--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Veryl Ellis
2017-10-06 13:53:12 UTC
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My RSU1709 RFN job took about 5.5 hours.
Submitted the job to run overnight.
I'm not in a production environment, so I may not have the same requirements.

S. Veryl Ellis ▪ Senior Systems Engineer | zSystems – Technical Services Group ▪ Sungard Availability Services
     

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:33 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response

John,

I am spoiled. I expect it to be ready for download within minutes or a few hours. Yesterday, a ten gigabyte RSU1709 took ten minutes to send me the package details. I submitted the RFN and it took almost seven hours to download. That is my expectation. :-)

Reality need? Order one day, submit on light weekday or on weekend. Restart at last known good point, if needed.

Anything across the network beats the heck out of snail mail and I know you guys are trying to do away with the physical media!

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:22 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response

More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get z/OS, at least.

What kind of ServerPac turnaround time do people:

- Expect?
- Really need?

...for z/OS orders?
Post by Allan Staller
Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
Bob
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: ShopZ order response
On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?
<snip>

--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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John Eells
2017-10-06 13:55:52 UTC
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Bob,

I am asking specifically about order turnaround time for ServerPac
orders that contain z/OS.

It's interesting to understand the RFN and RECEIVE ORDER expectations
and needs as well, but I am feeling lazy on this particular Friday, so I
want to try to boil only one part of the ocean at a time. ;-)

The problem everyone has with physical media is being able to ship
something compatible with what people have today, and will continue to
have tomorrow. Our tape drives cartridge formats are not, as far as I
know, readable by other manufacturer's tape drives these days. (3480
was the last interoperable format.)

On the workstation front, optical drives are falling out of favor on new
machines. I personally want to stay away from USB memory sticks, and a
number of very security-conscious clients do not allow their use at all.
They disable USB ports entirely, which precludes all things that are
USB-attached and not just memory sticks. We're starting to run shy of
things we can send everyone that will remain usable for the foreseeable
future.

It's this, really, that might drive us toward Internet-only delivery at
some future point.

John Eells
z/OS Platform Installation Strategy
Post by Richards, Robert B.
John,
I am spoiled. I expect it to be ready for download within minutes or a few hours. Yesterday, a ten gigabyte RSU1709 took ten minutes to send me the package details. I submitted the RFN and it took almost seven hours to download. That is my expectation. :-)
Reality need? Order one day, submit on light weekday or on weekend. Restart at last known good point, if needed.
Anything across the network beats the heck out of snail mail and I know you guys are trying to do away with the physical media!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get z/OS, at least.
- Expect?
- Really need?
...for z/OS orders?
Post by Allan Staller
Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
Bob
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: ShopZ order response
On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?
<snip>
--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
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Jousma, David
2017-10-06 14:16:48 UTC
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John,

I'm glad you brought up optical media. Here at the bank, we have no CD drives, and USB is disabled. So today with internet serverpac delivery, the optional materials also come as CD/DVD images. I find that extremely cumbersome. I have neither the NAS space or the time to download each and every image, since I might not know before the order expires which ones I will actually need.

What I end up doing is re-ordering my serverpack on physical media, soley for the purpose of getting all the CD/DVD media. If I had my way, I'd get internet delivery of serverpack, and physical delivery of the optional media.

_________________________________________________________________
Dave Jousma
Manager Mainframe Engineering, Assistant Vice President
***@53.com
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.2717


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:57 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

**DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails**

Bob,

I am asking specifically about order turnaround time for ServerPac orders that contain z/OS.

It's interesting to understand the RFN and RECEIVE ORDER expectations and needs as well, but I am feeling lazy on this particular Friday, so I want to try to boil only one part of the ocean at a time. ;-)

The problem everyone has with physical media is being able to ship something compatible with what people have today, and will continue to have tomorrow. Our tape drives cartridge formats are not, as far as I know, readable by other manufacturer's tape drives these days. (3480 was the last interoperable format.)

On the workstation front, optical drives are falling out of favor on new machines. I personally want to stay away from USB memory sticks, and a number of very security-conscious clients do not allow their use at all.
They disable USB ports entirely, which precludes all things that are USB-attached and not just memory sticks. We're starting to run shy of things we can send everyone that will remain usable for the foreseeable future.

It's this, really, that might drive us toward Internet-only delivery at some future point.

John Eells
z/OS Platform Installation Strategy
Post by Richards, Robert B.
John,
I am spoiled. I expect it to be ready for download within minutes or a
few hours. Yesterday, a ten gigabyte RSU1709 took ten minutes to send
me the package details. I submitted the RFN and it took almost seven
hours to download. That is my expectation. :-)
Reality need? Order one day, submit on light weekday or on weekend. Restart at last known good point, if needed.
Anything across the network beats the heck out of snail mail and I know you guys are trying to do away with the physical media!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of John Eells
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get z/OS, at least.
- Expect?
- Really need?
...for z/OS orders?
Post by Allan Staller
Might also be a flood of orders. CBPDO/SERVERPAC do require a lot of processing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: ShopZ order response
Bob
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Nightwatch RenBand
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: ShopZ order response
On 2017-09-28 I placed my order for a new version of zOS online. I received an eMail back from ShopZ the next day and online shows "Manufacturing"
.
Unfortunately the person who sent the original eMail has not returned eMail or phone calls, Attempts to call ShopZ have resulted in my leaving messages, but again, no returned calls.
Is this normal?
Should it take this long to process an order?
Is there some better way to contact ShopZ?
<snip>
--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
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IBM Poughkeepsie
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Edward Gould
2017-10-07 23:12:56 UTC
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Post by Jousma, David
Bob,
I am asking specifically about order turnaround time for ServerPac orders that contain z/OS.
It's interesting to understand the RFN and RECEIVE ORDER expectations and needs as well, but I am feeling lazy on this particular Friday, so I want to try to boil only one part of the ocean at a time. ;-)
The problem everyone has with physical media is being able to ship something compatible with what people have today, and will continue to have tomorrow. Our tape drives cartridge formats are not, as far as I know, readable by other manufacturer's tape drives these days. (3480 was the last interoperable format.)
On the workstation front, optical drives are falling out of favor on new machines. I personally want to stay away from USB memory sticks, and a number of very security-conscious clients do not allow their use at all. They disable USB ports entirely, which precludes all things that are USB-attached and not just memory sticks. We're starting to run shy of things we can send everyone that will remain usable for the foreseeable future.
It's this, really, that might drive us toward Internet-only delivery at some future point.
John Eells
z/OS Platform Installation Strategy
John,

How are you going to handle the orders for Tapes? Our installation does not have *ANY* internet connection from the M/F. AFAIK that will never change. The place is hyper about security. I think its overblown, but the current upper management says NFW. When they say no they mean no. Myself I am happy with tape, I don’t have to worry about the SMPE creating datasets all over the place and having 5 volumes(or more) for simple maintenance.

Ed


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John Eells
2017-10-09 11:35:47 UTC
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Post by Edward Gould
Post by Jousma, David
Bob,
I am asking specifically about order turnaround time for ServerPac orders that contain z/OS.
It's interesting to understand the RFN and RECEIVE ORDER expectations and needs as well, but I am feeling lazy on this particular Friday, so I want to try to boil only one part of the ocean at a time. ;-)
The problem everyone has with physical media is being able to ship something compatible with what people have today, and will continue to have tomorrow. Our tape drives cartridge formats are not, as far as I know, readable by other manufacturer's tape drives these days. (3480 was the last interoperable format.)
On the workstation front, optical drives are falling out of favor on new machines. I personally want to stay away from USB memory sticks, and a number of very security-conscious clients do not allow their use at all. They disable USB ports entirely, which precludes all things that are USB-attached and not just memory sticks. We're starting to run shy of things we can send everyone that will remain usable for the foreseeable future.
It's this, really, that might drive us toward Internet-only delivery at some future point.
John Eells
z/OS Platform Installation Strategy
John,
How are you going to handle the orders for Tapes? Our installation does not have *ANY* internet connection from the M/F. AFAIK that will never change. The place is hyper about security. I think its overblown, but the current upper management says NFW. When they say no they mean no. Myself I am happy with tape, I don’t have to worry about the SMPE creating datasets all over the place and having 5 volumes(or more) for simple maintenance.
In addition to what I wrote above, we, like everyone else, are driven by
client behaviors and available technologies. So let's talk about
numbers for a minute.

As of this March, 86% of our orders are being downloaded, and every time
we get new numbers that percentage goes up. Of the remainder, the last
year I pulled numbers to break down DVD vs. tape, about 2/3 of orders
delivered on physical media were on DVD. That was a couple of years
ago. If I extrapolate the trend we saw then, that 1/3 of the remainder
is probably more like 1/6 today.

In other words, tape orders are dwindling, and not slowly.

At some point, we will almost certainly drop tape support for software
delivery. It seems very likely to me that we simply will not be able to
justify replacing the tape drives in the distribution centers once our
current tape drives reach end of life.

I hope nobody finds this surprising. We have, for example, discussed
this before in IBM-MAIN.

In a future without tape, if you do not have optical drives and cannot
connect to the Internet, you will need to take a laptop outside the
firewall, download your order, bring it back in, and upload it to your
z/OS system. This is already supported and documented, and has been for
well over a decade now.
--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
***@us.ibm.com

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Edward Gould
2017-10-07 23:19:51 UTC
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Post by Jousma, David
More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get z/OS, at least.
- Expect?
- Really need?
...for z/OS orders?
John,

Hands down CBPDO. Its straightforward none of the damn menus of Servpac and I can at any point in time see what is going on, which for us is important as we switch duties at a minutes notice. With a CBPDO there is a nice checklist and a spool to look at with SDSF. The people switching duties is typical in our shop. One day you are working on a PDO and in the afternoon you are dump looking while someone else is doing the CBPDO. No muss no fuss. I get pulled into so many meetings that essentially 2 people can work on it and no worry about servpac datasets.

Ed


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Mark Zelden
2017-10-06 16:46:09 UTC
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Post by John Eells
More for ServerPac than for CBPDO, but ServerPac is how most people get
z/OS, at least.
- Expect?
- Really need?
...for z/OS orders?
My expectations are based on past results. 2-3 weeks? I don't know about "need",
but I think 2 weeks seems reasonable for a z/OS ServerPac.

One size does not fit all. Not too long ago I ordered a ServerPac to refresh all the
Omegamon products for my client and it took 5 days from order to ready to download.

Best Regards,

Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
mailto:***@mzelden.com
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html
Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/
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