Discussion:
opinion: multi-platform program design
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John McKown
2018-06-07 14:27:45 UTC
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I've already written a utility program which is designed to run as a UNIX
command, mainly interactively from a UNIX shell, but it works from TSO
OSHELL and in batch via BPXBATCH or Co:Z launcher just fine. So, from a
"practical" viewpoint the following is not really necessary.

But I am considering making a "version 2.0" which will run "natively" in
the various environments. In particular, the environments I envision are:

1) batch - directly from an EXEC PGM=UTILITY
2) REXX via IRXJCL - "pure" non-TSO REXX
3) native IKJEFT01 - a true TSO CP (getline/putline with TSO CP command
parameters)
4) REXX under IKJEFT01 - a TSO REXEC environment
5) native UNIX - a UNIX command via a shell
​6) REXX under UNIX - program invoked with a UNIX shell script written in
REXX​

Have I missed some other "normal" (not CICS, DB2 stored proc, IMS, etc)
z/OS environment. In a REXX environment (#s 2, 4, & 6) I plan to have a
"STEM varname." type option such as with EXECIO. In all environments, the
default output would be to the normal output (in batch, I consider
//SYSPRINT to be the "normal" place for program output)

First, I will grant that, other than the REXX STEM option, I can
effectively do all the options other than #1 already in a "sideways" sort
of way by just using the current UNIX command via BPXBATCH (OSHELL uses
this under the covers).
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Seymour J Metz
2018-06-07 17:21:23 UTC
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ISPF

NETVIEW

System REXX


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of John McKown <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:27 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: opinion: multi-platform program design

I've already written a utility program which is designed to run as a UNIX
command, mainly interactively from a UNIX shell, but it works from TSO
OSHELL and in batch via BPXBATCH or Co:Z launcher just fine. So, from a
"practical" viewpoint the following is not really necessary.

But I am considering making a "version 2.0" which will run "natively" in
the various environments. In particular, the environments I envision are:

1) batch - directly from an EXEC PGM=UTILITY
2) REXX via IRXJCL - "pure" non-TSO REXX
3) native IKJEFT01 - a true TSO CP (getline/putline with TSO CP command
parameters)
4) REXX under IKJEFT01 - a TSO REXEC environment
5) native UNIX - a UNIX command via a shell
​6) REXX under UNIX - program invoked with a UNIX shell script written in
REXX​

Have I missed some other "normal" (not CICS, DB2 stored proc, IMS, etc)
z/OS environment. In a REXX environment (#s 2, 4, & 6) I plan to have a
"STEM varname." type option such as with EXECIO. In all environments, the
default output would be to the normal output (in batch, I consider
//SYSPRINT to be the "normal" place for program output)

First, I will grant that, other than the REXX STEM option, I can
effectively do all the options other than #1 already in a "sideways" sort
of way by just using the current UNIX command via BPXBATCH (OSHELL uses
this under the covers).

--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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John McKown
2018-06-07 18:22:19 UTC
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Post by Seymour J Metz
ISPF
​Ah, yes, I guess you mean using ISPF display services to get input,
display output​, and possibly update ISPF variables rather that TSO
CLIST/REXX variables.
Post by Seymour J Metz
NETVIEW
​Unfortunately, I know nothing about NETVIEW because I've never had it
installed anywhere that I have worked.​
Post by Seymour J Metz
System REXX
​Hum, I'll have to see how this might differ from IRXJCL type REXX.
Especially in the arena of a TSO server vs. a non-TSO server.​

​Thanks.
Post by Seymour J Metz
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Seymour J Metz
2018-06-07 18:48:41 UTC
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Yes, I like to have ISPF aware applications that use ISPF services when available and support ISPF variables. As an exampled, I'd like to do I/O to/from a table.

I forgot to mention TSSO as another environment.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of John McKown <***@GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:21 PM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: opinion: multi-platform program design
Post by Seymour J Metz
ISPF
​Ah, yes, I guess you mean using ISPF display services to get input,
display output​, and possibly update ISPF variables rather that TSO
CLIST/REXX variables.
Post by Seymour J Metz
NETVIEW
​Unfortunately, I know nothing about NETVIEW because I've never had it
installed anywhere that I have worked.​
Post by Seymour J Metz
System REXX
​Hum, I'll have to see how this might differ from IRXJCL type REXX.
Especially in the arena of a TSO server vs. a non-TSO server.​

​Thanks.
Post by Seymour J Metz
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Wayne Bickerdike
2018-06-07 20:17:15 UTC
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You missed REXX/CICS. Am I the only person who uses this variant?
Post by Seymour J Metz
Yes, I like to have ISPF aware applications that use ISPF services when
available and support ISPF variables. As an exampled, I'd like to do I/O
to/from a table.
I forgot to mention TSSO as another environment.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: opinion: multi-platform program design
Post by Seymour J Metz
ISPF
​Ah, yes, I guess you mean using ISPF display services to get input,
display output​, and possibly update ISPF variables rather that TSO
CLIST/REXX variables.
Post by Seymour J Metz
NETVIEW
​Unfortunately, I know nothing about NETVIEW because I've never had it
installed anywhere that I have worked.​
Post by Seymour J Metz
System REXX
​Hum, I'll have to see how this might differ from IRXJCL type REXX.
Especially in the arena of a TSO server vs. a non-TSO server.​
​Thanks.
Post by Seymour J Metz
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown
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John McKown
2018-06-07 20:37:04 UTC
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Post by Wayne Bickerdike
You missed REXX/CICS. Am I the only person who uses this variant?
​I don't have that product and so cannot code for it. ​
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Peter Hunkeler
2018-06-07 19:15:27 UTC
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It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)


Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.


--
Peter Hunkeler



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Mark Regan
2018-06-07 21:46:06 UTC
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I've determined that rap music is very boring, to me anyway.
Post by Peter Hunkeler
It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not
think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that
contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Regards,

Mark T. Regan

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David Crayford
2018-06-08 04:12:23 UTC
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Post by Peter Hunkeler
It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
What do you listen to, Beethoven? Ramstein? :)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Savor, Thomas , Alpharetta
2018-06-08 04:50:27 UTC
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Rammstein

Thanks,

Tom Savor


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Crayford
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 12:12 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
What do you listen to, Beethoven? Ramstein? :)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Ron hawkins
2018-06-08 23:03:23 UTC
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You have asked me and I have said nothing.

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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:50 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)

Rammstein

Thanks,

Tom Savor


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Crayford
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 12:12 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
What do you listen to, Beethoven? Ramstein? :)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
--
Peter Hunkeler
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David Crayford
2018-06-09 06:13:00 UTC
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Post by Ron hawkins
You have asked me and I have said nothing.
Are they lyrics from a Barnsey song?
Post by Ron hawkins
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)
Rammstein
Thanks,
Tom Savor
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
What do you listen to, Beethoven? Ramstein? :)
Post by Peter Hunkeler
Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Michael Oujesky
2018-06-13 18:05:13 UTC
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IMHO, rap "music" is _NOT_ music. But highly indicative of what the coming generations will be like.
Post by Peter Hunkeler
It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
Post by John McKown
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that
contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
--
Peter Hunkeler
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Paul Gilmartin
2018-06-07 17:21:43 UTC
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Post by John McKown
I've already written a utility program which is designed to run as a UNIX
command, mainly interactively from a UNIX shell, but it works from TSO
OSHELL and in batch via BPXBATCH or Co:Z launcher just fine. So, from a
"practical" viewpoint the following is not really necessary.
But I am considering making a "version 2.0" which will run "natively" in
1) batch - directly from an EXEC PGM=UTILITY
2) REXX via IRXJCL - "pure" non-TSO REXX
3) native IKJEFT01 - a true TSO CP (getline/putline with TSO CP command
parameters)
4) REXX under IKJEFT01 - a TSO REXEC environment
5) native UNIX - a UNIX command via a shell
​6) REXX under UNIX - program invoked with a UNIX shell script written in
REXX​
Have I missed some other "normal" (not CICS, DB2 stored proc, IMS, etc)
z/OS environment.
I have one similar. Fewer environments: 2, 4, 5, 6 plus ISPF Edit command
line as a macro. It needs a job ID argument which it sometimes gets (thanks,
Pedro Vera, for the suggestion) by scraping an SDSF screen -- just type its
member name on the command line.
Post by John McKown
... In a REXX environment (#s 2, 4, & 6) I plan to have a
"STEM varname." type option such as with EXECIO.
Input? Output? Kinda like BPXWUNIX? (I'm surprised how many programmers
are unaware of or eschew its ddname form for stdin/stdout/stderr, given that
they work beautifully. I can run BPXWUNIX with stdout and stderr directed to
SYSOUT and tail them with SDSF in real time -- no buffer latency.)
Post by John McKown
...In all environments, the
default output would be to the normal output (in batch, I consider
//SYSPRINT to be the "normal" place for program output)
-- gil

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Paul Gilmartin
2018-06-07 17:48:42 UTC
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Post by John McKown
...
2) REXX via IRXJCL - "pure" non-TSO REXX
....
Post by John McKown
​6) REXX under UNIX - program invoked with a UNIX shell script written in REXX​
It's a shame that UNIX directories are not supported in SYSEXEC concatenation.
I do it anyway to avoid tedious synching, even at the cost of sporadic ABENDs,
always at Rexx EXIT instructions, and never with lost data. I suspect it's
freeing a buffer in a wrong key. But, not supported.

-- gil

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Timothy Sipples
2018-06-08 04:49:24 UTC
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Post by Wayne Bickerdike
You missed REXX/CICS. Am I the only person who uses this variant?
I don't have that product and so cannot code for it.
You have it if you have CICS Transaction Server for z/OS, which includes
the functions that were previously in the CICS REXX Runtime Facility
(5655-087), CICS REXX Development System (5655-086), and CICS REXX Common
for z/OS (5655-112). Those elements have been part of the base CICS
Transaction Server for z/OS at least as far back as CICS Transaction Server
Version 3.1, which ran on z/OS 1.4 and higher. (Assuredly well before that,
too. I just stopped looking any farther back.)

Don't have CICS Transaction Server yet? Well, you can download the CICS
Transaction Server Open Beta release for z/OS, available here:

https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/cics/trials

As I write this, Version 5.5 Beta 4 is available. You can also order the
CICS Transaction Server for z/OS Developer Trial from IBM ShopZ. Look for
IBM Program Number 5655-Y30, and that's currently at the Version 5.4 level.
The Developer Trial is a no charge limited license, and (oddly, nicely
enough) you're allowed to get a new limited term if you reinstall it, as
long as your use complies with the limited license. Both Version 5.4 and
Version 5.5 Beta 4 require z/OS 2.1 or higher.

There's also an IBM Cloud-hosted CICS Transaction Server trial offer that's
"coming soon." Keep an eye on this page for details:

https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/resources/trial

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
E-Mail: ***@sg.ibm.com

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Wayne Bickerdike
2018-06-08 04:56:13 UTC
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Odd thing about CICS people is that they don't install REXX/CICS when it's
basically *free* with CICS.

The DB2 interface is simple, CICS commands and CICS APIs are a snap. It can
read and write a PDS or flat file. TSQ browse/write/delete is simple and it
has a full screen interface similar to ISPF.

I chucked most of the IVP programs into a REXX panel for CICS and DB2. If
ISPF is hosed, use REXX CICS and submit your rescue jobs :)
Post by Timothy Sipples
Post by Wayne Bickerdike
You missed REXX/CICS. Am I the only person who uses this variant?
I don't have that product and so cannot code for it.
You have it if you have CICS Transaction Server for z/OS, which includes
the functions that were previously in the CICS REXX Runtime Facility
(5655-087), CICS REXX Development System (5655-086), and CICS REXX Common
for z/OS (5655-112). Those elements have been part of the base CICS
Transaction Server for z/OS at least as far back as CICS Transaction Server
Version 3.1, which ran on z/OS 1.4 and higher. (Assuredly well before that,
too. I just stopped looking any farther back.)
Don't have CICS Transaction Server yet? Well, you can download the CICS
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/cics/trials
As I write this, Version 5.5 Beta 4 is available. You can also order the
CICS Transaction Server for z/OS Developer Trial from IBM ShopZ. Look for
IBM Program Number 5655-Y30, and that's currently at the Version 5.4 level.
The Developer Trial is a no charge limited license, and (oddly, nicely
enough) you're allowed to get a new limited term if you reinstall it, as
long as your use complies with the limited license. Both Version 5.4 and
Version 5.5 Beta 4 require z/OS 2.1 or higher.
There's also an IBM Cloud-hosted CICS Transaction Server trial offer that's
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/resources/trial
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
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John McKown
2018-06-08 13:02:06 UTC
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Post by Timothy Sipples
Post by Wayne Bickerdike
You missed REXX/CICS. Am I the only person who uses this variant?
I don't have that product and so cannot code for it.
You have it if you have CICS Transaction Server for z/OS, which includes
the functions that were previously in the CICS REXX Runtime Facility
(5655-087), CICS REXX Development System (5655-086), and CICS REXX Common
for z/OS (5655-112). Those elements have been part of the base CICS
Transaction Server for z/OS at least as far back as CICS Transaction Server
Version 3.1, which ran on z/OS 1.4 and higher. (Assuredly well before that,
too. I just stopped looking any farther back.)
​I did not know that. We are on CICS/TS 4.1. I will see if I can find the
information that I need. However, it is unlikely that we will ever really
use CICS/REXX because: (1) the programmers don't know REXX and (2) REXX is
a pig, MSU wise, compared to even reasonably efficient COBOL (we are
running COBOL 3.4!)​
Post by Timothy Sipples
Don't have CICS Transaction Server yet? Well, you can download the CICS
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/cics/trials
As I write this, Version 5.5 Beta 4 is available. You can also order the
CICS Transaction Server for z/OS Developer Trial from IBM ShopZ. Look for
IBM Program Number 5655-Y30, and that's currently at the Version 5.4 level.
The Developer Trial is a no charge limited license, and (oddly, nicely
enough) you're allowed to get a new limited term if you reinstall it, as
long as your use complies with the limited license. Both Version 5.4 and
Version 5.5 Beta 4 require z/OS 2.1 or higher.
​My boss would "have words with me" if I were to download that.​
Post by Timothy Sipples
There's also an IBM Cloud-hosted CICS Transaction Server trial offer that's
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/resources/trial
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
--
Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Timothy Sipples
2018-06-08 05:57:42 UTC
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Hopefully this is not a stupid question - but
is it possibly via RACF (maybe with DASDVOL)
to allow a particular system to have only read
access to a DASD volume? We have a need to
possibly vary some devices onto a system in one
plex while it is being updated on another plex,
so we would like to ensure the one system cannot
update the volume.
Adding to the other replies, Tony Shen posted the same basic question in
2003 to IBM-MAIN. Kelvin Wells then provided a little more detail on the
take a look at IGGPRE00. You can find samples in
SYS1.SAMPLIB members RACEXITS and RACINSTL.
I think my colleague Marna Walle might be on the right track, no pun
intended, with another viable option. IBM fairly recently implemented
enhancements to DFSMS to allow read-only access to data sets on devices
that are defined as read-only using HCD. Please take a look at APAR
OA50068:

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/zoslib/pdf/OA50068.pdf

Marna is exactly right that there are some caveats. This enhancement is
available for z/OS 2.1 and higher.

Now I'll turn to some "wilder" ideas....

WI1. The base z/OS operating system includes a Network File System (NFS)
server and client. You could configure the NFS server such that it provides
read-only access to a NFS client. You can configure the read-only attribute
on either or both sides of the NFS connection.

WI2. If you run z/OS under z/VM, z/VM supports read-only minidisks:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSB27U_6.4.0/com.ibm.zvm.v640.icha4/ich99acm.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
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