Discussion:
Transferring hebrew data from Db2 Z/OS to PC
Add Reply
Yaron Tal
2018-01-08 05:48:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi everyone,

I am trying to move large amounts of data from Db2 Z/OS to other platforms.

This is done by running UNLOAD utility to prepare a file and then FTP

the file to my PC in order to LOAD it later onto another platform.

File has a mix of fields - integers, decimals and characater data which includes hebrew, english

and special characters like : " , ( .

Problem is - hebrew data gets reversed (left to right ordering) in the process.

I am using BlueZone FTP by Rocket Software which is quite fast (we're talking about large amounts).

IBM Personal Communications emulation moes the data in right order (using BIDI options - implicit ordering)

but is very slow and might take weeks for the entire set of data to be moved.

Will appreciate your help on how to get the hebrew on the right direction using normal FTP process, Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Charles Mills
2018-01-08 06:22:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
And any program in order to do the job must be cognizant of the format, and where the fields begin and end in the records?

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gadi Ben-Avi
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 9:58 PM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Transferring hebrew data from Db2 Z/OS to PC

עיברית קשה שפה

Your data is fine.
The problem is with the way Windows expects Hebrew to be stored.

On z/OS, Hebrew is usually stored visually - the first letter in a word is on the right.
On other platforms, including Windows, Hebrew is stored logically - the first letter is on the left, and programs reverse the data before it is displayed.

This gets even more complicated when the data contains a mixture of Hebrew, English, digits. Special characters make it even more complicated.
There are utilites to fix the data, but non are perfect.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
ITschak Mugzach
2018-01-08 07:20:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
​Preprocess the dataset you are ​trying to transfer. I wrote a utility that
identify Hebrew strings (String length > 1) and reverse it. It is part of
DB2 to MS-SQL data mover I wrote, but the idea is the same. If your FTP
product defines a record level user exit, you can try there as well.

Best,
ITschak
Post by Charles Mills
And any program in order to do the job must be cognizant of the format,
and where the fields begin and end in the records?
Charles
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Gadi Ben-Avi
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Transferring hebrew data from Db2 Z/OS to PC
עיברית קשה שפה
Your data is fine.
The problem is with the way Windows expects Hebrew to be stored.
On z/OS, Hebrew is usually stored visually - the first letter in a word is on the right.
On other platforms, including Windows, Hebrew is stored logically - the
first letter is on the left, and programs reverse the data before it is
displayed.
This gets even more complicated when the data contains a mixture of
Hebrew, English, digits. Special characters make it even more complicated.
There are utilites to fix the data, but non are perfect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **| *

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-01-08 15:50:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Mills
עיברית קשה שפה
Your data is fine.
The problem is with the way Windows expects Hebrew to be stored.
I'd say the problem is with the way z/OS stores Hebrew.
Post by Charles Mills
On z/OS, Hebrew is usually stored visually - the first letter in a word is on the right.
On other platforms, including Windows, Hebrew is stored logically - the first letter is on the left, and programs reverse the data before it is displayed.
The z/OS practice makes flowing text even more difficult. For example,
when I view your Hebrew legal notice with either Firefox or Mail.app and
narrow the window, the last (leftmost) word is moved to the beginning
(right) end of next line. It even seems to handle parentheses correctly.

Do z/OS editors (e.g. ISPF) do as well when flowing a mixture of Hebrew
and Latin text?

And DFSORT, given SORTIN with some keys in Hebrew ... ?

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Seymour J Metz
2018-01-09 20:52:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Paul Gilmartin
2018-01-09 21:24:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ITschak Mugzach
I wonder how will it solve the Hebrew reading direction issue...
I doubt that it will or should. Handling text direction and mixed direction text is an application issue. It helps if you're using Unicode.
I deem an editor such an application. Don't you appreciate WYSIWYG?
Post by ITschak Mugzach
What is "the z/OS practice"? If it's anything but storing characters in logical sequence rather than visual sequence then that's bad.
See Gadi, below. According to that, it's bad.
Post by ITschak Mugzach
Why "עיברית קשה שפה"? It's certainly more regular than English. Although that word order looks strange.
I don't know Hebrew. But I can use Google Translate. But that doesn't
help if I don't know whether adjectives precede or follow nouns. Is
it like Russian, eliding auxiliary verbs? What would be a fluent rendition?
Google Translate tells me "עברית היא שפה קשה" (when I do some guessing;
with cutting and pasting I get from Google, hyper-literally, "Hebrew she
language difficult".)
Post by ITschak Mugzach
Post by Charles Mills
עיברית קשה שפה
...
On z/OS, Hebrew is usually stored visually - the first letter in a word is on the right.
On other platforms, including Windows, Hebrew is stored logically - the first letter is on the left, and programs reverse the data before it is displayed.
-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Seymour J Metz
2018-01-09 21:38:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
John McKown
2018-01-09 21:43:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
I would certainly want an editor to have reasonable handling of text
direction, with the user firmly in control of how the editor behaves.
I refer to WYSIWYG as what you see is all you get (WYSIAYG), and hate it.
It gives no clue as to what will happen if you make changes, while with a
markup language everything is clear.
​I really dislike "Word Processors" like MS Word, or even LibreOffice.
Personally, I prefer an explicit "markup language" such as LaTex (using
TexStudio) or Docbook or Texinfo. I really liked IBM's Document Composition
Facility, back in the day.​
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
--
I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove
it.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Seymour J Metz
2018-01-09 22:03:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Yeah, I was hot happy when they functionally stabilized DCF and BM. I'm currently using LaTeX both for technical writing and for designing my own T-shirts. I don't care for the syntax, but there are packages for the sorts of things I want to do. Now if I could just find MiKTeX install files old enough to run on m$ vista -(:

I used to curse word pervert until I was forced to use m$ office. (Free|Libre)Office is a step up, but I still want DCF, BookMaster/PC and BookManager Build/PC, preferably on a Linux platform.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of John McKown <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:44 PM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Transferring hebrew data from Db2 Z/OS to PC
I would certainly want an editor to have reasonable handling of text
direction, with the user firmly in control of how the editor behaves.
I refer to WYSIWYG as what you see is all you get (WYSIAYG), and hate it.
It gives no clue as to what will happen if you make changes, while with a
markup language everything is clear.
​I really dislike "Word Processors" like MS Word, or even LibreOffice.
Personally, I prefer an explicit "markup language" such as LaTex (using
TexStudio) or Docbook or Texinfo. I really liked IBM's Document Composition
Facility, back in the day.​
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
--
I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove
it.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
ITschak Mugzach
2018-01-10 05:46:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
in case you still looking for a solution, here is the logic of "how to".
Again, this code is based on string read from DB2, but the idea is the same
.

ITschak

LOGICALREVERSE:
/*--------------------------------------------------------------*/
/*REVERSE CHAR FIELDS IN LOGICAL MANNER IN ORDER TO PRESERVE */
/*NUMERIC ORDER */
/*--------------------------------------------------------------*/
NUMWORDS = WORDS(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
KEEPLENGTH = LENGTH(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = REVERSE(,
TRANSLATE(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,HEBOLD,HEBNEW))
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
DO XINDEX = 1 TO NUMWORDS
/* HANDLE NUMERICS */
XWORD = WORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,XINDEX)
IF (VERIFY(XWORD,ALLNOTNUM) = 0) THEN DO
ITERATE
END
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = SUBWORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,1,XINDEX-1),
REVERSE(XWORD) SUBWORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,XINDEX+1)
END
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
IF (NUMWORDS < 2) THEN DO
/* HANDLE EMPTY AND SHORTER THEN 2 WORDS STRINGS */
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
RETURN
END
/* SAY RIGHT(I,5) ':' RIGHT(NUMWORDS,5) ':' SQLXA.I.SQLDATA
*/
/* ---------------------------------------------------- */
/* HANDLE ENGLISH WORDS THAT CHANGED POS DUE TO REVERSE */
/* ---------------------------------------------------- */
WORDF = ''
CNTF = 0
DO IV = 1 TO NUMWORDS
WORDC = WORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,IV)
IF (VERIFY(WORDC,ENGLISH) = 0) THEN DO
WORDF = WORDF WORDC
CNTF = CNTF + 1
ITERATE
END
LEAVE
END
WORDL = ''
CNTL = 0
DO IV = NUMWORDS TO 1 BY -1
WORDC = WORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,IV)
IF (VERIFY(WORDC,ENGLISH) = 0) THEN DO
WORDL = WORDL WORDC
CNTL = CNTL + 1
ITERATE
END
LEAVE
END
WORDF = STRIP(WORDF)
WORDL = STRIP(WORDL)
IF (CNTF = NUMWORDS) THEN DO
/* ------------------------------------------- */
/* STRINGIS ALL ENGLISH... */
/* ------------------------------------------- */
RETURN
END
/* WORDF = WORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,1)
WORDL = WORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,NUMWORDS)
*/
IF (NUMWORDS = 2) THEN DO
/* ------------------------------------------------- */
/* HANDLE STRING WITH ONLY TWO WORDS */
/* ------------------------------------------------- */
IF (WORDF ^= '') THEN DO
IF (WORDL ^= '') THEN DO
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(WORDL WORDF)
RETURN
END
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(WORDL WORDF)
RETURN
END
IF (WORDL ^= '') THEN DO
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(WORDL WORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,1))
RETURN
END
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
RETURN
END
IF (WORDL ^= '') THEN DO
/* ----------------------------------- */
/* LAST WORD IS ENGLISH, MOVE TO FIRST */
/* ----------------------------------- */
IF (WORDF ^= '') THEN DO
/* ----------------------------------- */
/* FIRST WORD IS ENGLISH, MOVE TO LAST */
/* ----------------------------------- */
WORDX = NUMWORDS - CNTF - CNTL
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = WORDL ,
SUBWORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,CNTF+1,WORDX) ,
WORDF
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
RETURN
END
WORDX = NUMWORDS - CNTL
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = WORDL ,
SUBWORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,1,WORDX)
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
RETURN
END
IF (WORDF ^= '') THEN DO
/* ----------------------------------- */
/* FIRST WORD IS ENGLISH, MOVE TO LAST */
/* ----------------------------------- */
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = SUBWORD(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA,CNTF+1) WORDF
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
RETURN
END
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = STRIP(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA)
SQLXA.I.SQLDATA = SUBSTR(SQLXA.I.SQLDATA' ',1,KEEPLENGTH)

RETURN
Post by Seymour J Metz
Yeah, I was hot happy when they functionally stabilized DCF and BM. I'm
currently using LaTeX both for technical writing and for designing my own
T-shirts. I don't care for the syntax, but there are packages for the
sorts of things I want to do. Now if I could just find MiKTeX install files
I used to curse word pervert until I was forced to use m$ office.
(Free|Libre)Office is a step up, but I still want DCF, BookMaster/PC and
BookManager Build/PC, preferably on a Linux platform.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Transferring hebrew data from Db2 Z/OS to PC
I would certainly want an editor to have reasonable handling of text
direction, with the user firmly in control of how the editor behaves.
I refer to WYSIWYG as what you see is all you get (WYSIAYG), and hate it.
It gives no clue as to what will happen if you make changes, while with a
markup language everything is clear.
​I really dislike "Word Processors" like MS Word, or even LibreOffice.
Personally, I prefer an explicit "markup language" such as LaTex (using
TexStudio) or Docbook or Texinfo. I really liked IBM's Document Composition
Facility, back in the day.​
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
--
I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove
it.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **| *

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Timothy Sipples
2018-01-09 05:49:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
OK, first comment: why the **** are you FTP'ing data in the first place?
This isn't 1989 any more. :-) And this is a serious question. It's
increasingly expensive and fraught with security risks to copy data
wantonly. What's this PC going to do with a bulk, point-in-time dump of all
this data?

Now, trying to answer your question directly (and perhaps at your own
peril):

1. I see in DB2-L that Kai Stroh already suggested checking your UNLOAD
options. That's a good suggestion.

2. You can very likely use an ETL/ELT tool that specializes in this sort of
work, notably IBM InfoSphere DataStage (preferably running on the IBM Z
machine itself). InfoSphere DataStage Version 11.7 was released in
December, 2017.

3. The Db2 cross-loader function is another possible option, as a part of
the data journey anyway. You would set up a Db2 instance on the target
platform (such as on the IBM Z machine itself, with Db2 for Linux), and
you'd use the cross-loader function, with Db2 for z/OS as the input and Db2
on the other machine as the target. If any encoding scheme conversion is
required, the cross-loader should handle it. You can find some more
information on the cross-loader here (Db2 for z/OS Version 12 assumed):

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSEPEK_12.0.0/ugref/src/tpc/db2z_loadusecrossloaderfunction.html

4. Db2 High Performance Unload for z/OS might add some value here. The
latest version is 5.1 as I write this.

5. One more try per the first comment: just access the data (more securely)
using Db2 for z/OS native RESTful interfaces (HTTPS instead of FTP). See
here for details, in brief:

http://www.idug.org/p/bl/et/blogid=477&blogaid=544

http://db2geek.triton.co.uk/db2-native-rest-api-getting-started/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z and LinuxONE, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: ***@sg.ibm.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
ITschak Mugzach
2018-01-09 06:16:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
I wonder how will it solve the Hebrew reading direction issue...

ITschak
Post by Timothy Sipples
OK, first comment: why the **** are you FTP'ing data in the first place?
This isn't 1989 any more. :-) And this is a serious question. It's
increasingly expensive and fraught with security risks to copy data
wantonly. What's this PC going to do with a bulk, point-in-time dump of all
this data?
Now, trying to answer your question directly (and perhaps at your own
1. I see in DB2-L that Kai Stroh already suggested checking your UNLOAD
options. That's a good suggestion.
2. You can very likely use an ETL/ELT tool that specializes in this sort of
work, notably IBM InfoSphere DataStage (preferably running on the IBM Z
machine itself). InfoSphere DataStage Version 11.7 was released in
December, 2017.
3. The Db2 cross-loader function is another possible option, as a part of
the data journey anyway. You would set up a Db2 instance on the target
platform (such as on the IBM Z machine itself, with Db2 for Linux), and
you'd use the cross-loader function, with Db2 for z/OS as the input and Db2
on the other machine as the target. If any encoding scheme conversion is
required, the cross-loader should handle it. You can find some more
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSEPEK_12.
0.0/ugref/src/tpc/db2z_loadusecrossloaderfunction.html
4. Db2 High Performance Unload for z/OS might add some value here. The
latest version is 5.1 as I write this.
5. One more try per the first comment: just access the data (more securely)
using Db2 for z/OS native RESTful interfaces (HTTPS instead of FTP). See
http://www.idug.org/p/bl/et/blogid=477&blogaid=544
http://db2geek.triton.co.uk/db2-native-rest-api-getting-started/
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z and LinuxONE, AP/GCG/MEA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Seymour J Metz
2018-01-09 20:30:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
I doubt that it will or should. Handling text direction and mixed direction text is an application issue. It helps if you're using Unicode.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of ITschak Mugzach <***@GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 1:17 AM
To: IBM-***@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Transferring hebrew data from Db2 Z/OS to PC

I wonder how will it solve the Hebrew reading direction issue...

ITschak
Post by Timothy Sipples
OK, first comment: why the **** are you FTP'ing data in the first place?
This isn't 1989 any more. :-) And this is a serious question. It's
increasingly expensive and fraught with security risks to copy data
wantonly. What's this PC going to do with a bulk, point-in-time dump of all
this data?
Now, trying to answer your question directly (and perhaps at your own
1. I see in DB2-L that Kai Stroh already suggested checking your UNLOAD
options. That's a good suggestion.
2. You can very likely use an ETL/ELT tool that specializes in this sort of
work, notably IBM InfoSphere DataStage (preferably running on the IBM Z
machine itself). InfoSphere DataStage Version 11.7 was released in
December, 2017.
3. The Db2 cross-loader function is another possible option, as a part of
the data journey anyway. You would set up a Db2 instance on the target
platform (such as on the IBM Z machine itself, with Db2 for Linux), and
you'd use the cross-loader function, with Db2 for z/OS as the input and Db2
on the other machine as the target. If any encoding scheme conversion is
required, the cross-loader should handle it. You can find some more
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1--F8HIjiCULhGKNjMsf9MQZU8RREUUauEHkxqe6TduwxfF_zVDIRgSuwkBZcObJm7hchby8X92tQNfiT-hfhB6LM5qHtfdZBw_BSZXdzHD5gdxgV5DtcHwlr2xBqz7-tOoGOB5UtJx_ElBG75OCmoraH4iCcbfn9zix8hw1PJfuXjIf_Te94FK1-9IocxIjl_Pe319NUg6zQZV5eJqPN2veJKgn9Bf-Iykig9eJgJ3R6PPXIsWmgXDgGWZwU3s9eJwF71cDs8edINFIDET4-jnxerRKxsecrfgvfxmKjPEA7mfK_euKRYSrdPN0dRrUC5HrN9Sc_B08ZvEmNU2h28iqJaumpyyZZ9_dqQU80CVPwwX1QA_lVxd2RRQ2BSNRK0OR5q9UzbZmBMoPNRXH8mCKDF0NOzqAnhPqb2w-UWMU3NVOBmBQeQyv2z_5eRPol/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibm.com%2Fsupport%2Fknowledgecenter%2Fen%2FSSEPEK_12.
0.0/ugref/src/tpc/db2z_loadusecrossloaderfunction.html
4. Db2 High Performance Unload for z/OS might add some value here. The
latest version is 5.1 as I write this.
5. One more try per the first comment: just access the data (more securely)
using Db2 for z/OS native RESTful interfaces (HTTPS instead of FTP). See
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IUTaAXyZp3nLassn5SoM3yRT520QJQI6ffVu_E1fZQ_bdZvikhJFVYvLUmkZZRruPeMNYY5JQzsbiR8ewXPTgKHFjJsefEWPGIq5gowsT-OYqJVQLa1IkQajF3yFOL7bgqeGcmWVQNJx5pY-OqamyR0mc1NtS5G84mZqBPWLLdG-JDmkXRhA3SieiVzeFD6AS2KNxmM0KLe8-mYpshQyeZjlC9yUq_-Lbjt56Y7tcOjnupsAp1dco_y9V2CPtv55s3F3Ksio3Yo8kvvsyhVgp0O3dCKqdWyNaFrt2cR-_wXuPEGpAZU1xB3bIqU4xiuqeLuIA5-rgnSMLQz_zRxdB7ej9rD3Zw1W3WdWIFYsRfcIbMK6zAMeTAJEZdevs5agj8FF2iVAwe8httYkrG40gkCq0zPokl19jcRSb_4k3uj-oIKbSNA5155xLrrJmJAT/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.idug.org%2Fp%2Fbl%2Fet%2Fblogid%3D477%26blogaid%3D544
http://db2geek.triton.co.uk/db2-native-rest-api-getting-started/
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z and LinuxONE, AP/GCG/MEA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
David Crayford
2018-01-09 06:19:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Timothy Sipples
OK, first comment: why the **** are you FTP'ing data in the first place?
This isn't 1989 any more.:-) And this is a serious question. It's
increasingly expensive and fraught with security risks to copy data
wantonly. What's this PC going to do with a bulk, point-in-time dump of all
this data?
The OP stated that he was using Rocket Software's BlueZone FTP, which is
secure and effecient.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Seymour J Metz
2018-01-09 21:39:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Timothy Sipples
2018-01-10 05:56:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Crayford
The OP stated that he was using Rocket Software's BlueZone FTP,
which is secure and effecient.
Um, no, certainly not in the context I clearly meant.

So here's the question of the decade: what is the "damn good reason" to
dump [an entire System of Record] and copy it to [a PC]? If there is a damn
good reason, OK, march on. Is there?

There's a duty of care to everyone's data. Let's pause and THINK.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z and LinuxONE, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: ***@sg.ibm.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
ITschak Mugzach
2018-01-10 06:01:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
DWH? I agree that a single copy of data is more secure, however, there are
many applications that are considered far too costly on the mainframe. IBM
itself recognized the fact, by offering IDAA, for example, to pped up DB2
complex SQL queries...

ITschak
Post by Timothy Sipples
Post by David Crayford
The OP stated that he was using Rocket Software's BlueZone FTP,
which is secure and effecient.
Um, no, certainly not in the context I clearly meant.
So here's the question of the decade: what is the "damn good reason" to
dump [an entire System of Record] and copy it to [a PC]? If there is a damn
good reason, OK, march on. Is there?
There's a duty of care to everyone's data. Let's pause and THINK.
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z and LinuxONE, AP/GCG/MEA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **| *

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
David Crayford
2018-01-10 06:59:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ITschak Mugzach
DWH? I agree that a single copy of data is more secure, however, there are
many applications that are considered far too costly on the mainframe. IBM
itself recognized the fact, by offering IDAA, for example, to pped up DB2
complex SQL queries...
MXG customers have been doing it for donkeys years with SMF data to save
themselves a fortune in SAS licenses.

There's a plethora of modern solutions that stream mainframe data into
platforms like Splunk or ELK.
Post by ITschak Mugzach
ITschak
Post by Timothy Sipples
Post by David Crayford
The OP stated that he was using Rocket Software's BlueZone FTP,
which is secure and effecient.
Um, no, certainly not in the context I clearly meant.
So here's the question of the decade: what is the "damn good reason" to
dump [an entire System of Record] and copy it to [a PC]? If there is a damn
good reason, OK, march on. Is there?
There's a duty of care to everyone's data. Let's pause and THINK.
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z and LinuxONE, AP/GCG/MEA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Paul Gilmartin
2018-01-10 06:05:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ITschak Mugzach
in case you still looking for a solution, here is the logic of "how to".
Again, this code is based on string read from DB2, but the idea is the same
.
<Snip!>
That was enough DIY to reassure me that DB2 is relentlessly Eurocentric.
What if you want to issue a query and ORDER BY a Hebrew key?
What if you have a Latin major key and a Hebrew minor key? I could
easily imagine this in a DB of airline bookings (destination; passenger
name). Does DB2 understand LC_COLLATE?

-- gil

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
ITschak Mugzach
2018-01-10 06:29:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
In Israel, Airline booking systems's data is in English.

ITschak

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 8:06 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
Post by Paul Gilmartin
Post by ITschak Mugzach
in case you still looking for a solution, here is the logic of "how to".
Again, this code is based on string read from DB2, but the idea is the
same
Post by ITschak Mugzach
.
<Snip!>
That was enough DIY to reassure me that DB2 is relentlessly Eurocentric.
What if you want to issue a query and ORDER BY a Hebrew key?
What if you have a Latin major key and a Hebrew minor key? I could
easily imagine this in a DB of airline bookings (destination; passenger
name). Does DB2 understand LC_COLLATE?
-- gil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
--
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **| *

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Elardus Engelbrecht
2018-01-10 09:58:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Sorry to the OP, I don't have any answer to your original, but interesting question. Perhaps I should be glad not having to deal with that, but ... ;-)
I agree that a single copy of data is more secure, however, there are many applications that are considered far too costly on the mainframe.
Indeed. I know of 5+ different mainframe datacentres countrywide which merged into ONE datacentre. All to save on costs. Rand - dollar exchange rates are too high for us in sunny South Africa.

That was a good idea to save costs in buildings, electricity, license fees and costs to maintain hardware. Staff were redeployed on other places.

About mainframe applications - some expensive applications are called 'sunset applications' ready to be dropped asap. Some applications were already dropped, simply because they are too expensive and easy to replace.
The OP stated that he was using Rocket Software's BlueZone FTP, which is secure and effecient.
I agreed 100% with David. Rocket's competitors won't like that one bit. That is too bad - too sad.
So here's the question of the decade: what is the "damn good reason" to dump [an entire System of Record] and copy it to [a PC]? If there is a damn good reason, OK, march on. Is there?
Yes, there are many reasons. I will not list them here. But one reason is to dump them to a midrange machine, not to a PC, usually to merge these data into other database system for further processing.


Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to ***@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Loading...