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Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
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Mark Regan
2017-09-14 13:27:49 UTC
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Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,

Mark T. Regan

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Steve Smith
2017-09-14 13:31:13 UTC
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There is.

sas
Post by Mark Regan
Just asking if there is a way.
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Mark T. Regan
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Lizette Koehler
2017-09-14 13:48:57 UTC
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There is. It is documented in the JES2 INIT and TUNING. Go to www.ibm.com and search on JES2 DUPLICATE JOBS



However, what problem are you trying to solve?

When you switch this on - it will be an way of running that JES2 supports but it is not normal for JES2. It was setup with serial processing.

If you run duplicate job names, you will probably hit resource contention. Everyone wanting the same dataset, for example.

If you specify DUPL_JOB=NODELAY, jobs with the same job name may run concurrently with adverse effects. Make certain that this serialization mechanism is not being used in your environment before changing this parameter.


Lizette
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:29 AM
Subject: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on
JES2?
Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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Mark Regan
2017-09-14 14:29:26 UTC
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In our case, we use Connect:Direct between LPARs and one of the functions
people use is the RUN TASK to tell CA7 to release a job on the receiving
end. Since they are calling the same job name (CDC7NDMT) that is run to
tell CA7 this, along with the job details, if there a whole bunch of
transfers taking place, all wanting to run that same job name (CDC7NDMT)
the release of the final processing job can get held up.
Post by Lizette Koehler
There is. It is documented in the JES2 INIT and TUNING. Go to
www.ibm.com and search on JES2 DUPLICATE JOBS
However, what problem are you trying to solve?
When you switch this on - it will be an way of running that JES2 supports
but it is not normal for JES2. It was setup with serial processing.
If you run duplicate job names, you will probably hit resource
contention. Everyone wanting the same dataset, for example.
If you specify DUPL_JOB=NODELAY, jobs with the same job name may run
concurrently with adverse effects. Make certain that this serialization
mechanism is not being used in your environment before changing this
parameter.
Lizette
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:29 AM
Subject: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same
time on
JES2?
Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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Regards,

Mark T. Regan

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Steve Beaver
2017-09-14 15:21:42 UTC
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The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been
There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.

That being said you can have MULTIPLE STC's with the same name but you best be very, very careful



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:50 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?

There is. It is documented in the JES2 INIT and TUNING. Go to www.ibm.com and search on JES2 DUPLICATE JOBS



However, what problem are you trying to solve?

When you switch this on - it will be an way of running that JES2 supports but it is not normal for JES2. It was setup with serial processing.

If you run duplicate job names, you will probably hit resource contention. Everyone wanting the same dataset, for example.

If you specify DUPL_JOB=NODELAY, jobs with the same job name may run concurrently with adverse effects. Make certain that this serialization mechanism is not being used in your environment before changing this parameter.


Lizette
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:29 AM
Subject: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same
time on JES2?
Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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Ed Jaffe
2017-09-14 15:42:04 UTC
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Post by Steve Beaver
The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been
There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.
That restriction was lifted over a decade ago and, like many others, we
removed it immediately!

It was never a truly reliable way to single thread jobs because you
could never fully depend on the processing order.
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
Chief Technology Officer
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Allan Staller
2017-09-14 16:10:50 UTC
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That is no longer true. There is an option to run duplicate batch as of z/OS 2.1(?).
Might be earlier.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Beaver
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 10:23 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?

The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.

That being said you can have MULTIPLE STC's with the same name but you best be very, very careful



-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:50 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?

There is. It is documented in the JES2 INIT and TUNING. Go to www.ibm.com and search on JES2 DUPLICATE JOBS



However, what problem are you trying to solve?

When you switch this on - it will be an way of running that JES2 supports but it is not normal for JES2. It was setup with serial processing.

If you run duplicate job names, you will probably hit resource contention. Everyone wanting the same dataset, for example.

If you specify DUPL_JOB=NODELAY, jobs with the same job name may run concurrently with adverse effects. Make certain that this serialization mechanism is not being used in your environment before changing this parameter.


Lizette
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:29 AM
Subject: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same
time on JES2?
Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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Steve Beaver
2017-09-14 16:16:29 UTC
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You're talking it's about a change that is possible but it would be such a shock to people from what they know he's probably going to get fired for that one

Sent from my iPhone

Sorry for any grammar problems
Post by Allan Staller
That is no longer true. There is an option to run duplicate batch as of z/OS 2.1(?).
Might be earlier.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.
That being said you can have MULTIPLE STC's with the same name but you best be very, very careful
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
There is. It is documented in the JES2 INIT and TUNING. Go to www.ibm.com and search on JES2 DUPLICATE JOBS
However, what problem are you trying to solve?
When you switch this on - it will be an way of running that JES2 supports but it is not normal for JES2. It was setup with serial processing.
If you run duplicate job names, you will probably hit resource contention. Everyone wanting the same dataset, for example.
If you specify DUPL_JOB=NODELAY, jobs with the same job name may run concurrently with adverse effects. Make certain that this serialization mechanism is not being used in your environment before changing this parameter.
Lizette
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:29 AM
Subject: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same
time on JES2?
Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
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Allan Staller
2017-09-14 16:40:04 UTC
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Steve,
I took your prior comment to mean it *IS NOT* possible, period.

IBM has supported allowing duplicate batch jobs to run for many years now.
I did not say you should. I did say you could.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Beaver
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:18 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?

You're talking it's about a change that is possible but it would be such a shock to people from what they know he's probably going to get fired for that one

Sent from my iPhone

Sorry for any grammar problems
Post by Allan Staller
That is no longer true. There is an option to run duplicate batch as of z/OS 2.1(?).
Might be earlier.
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Steve Beaver
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.
That being said you can have MULTIPLE STC's with the same name but you
best be very, very careful
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
There is. It is documented in the JES2 INIT and TUNING. Go to www.ibm.com and search on JES2 DUPLICATE JOBS
However, what problem are you trying to solve?
When you switch this on - it will be an way of running that JES2 supports but it is not normal for JES2. It was setup with serial processing.
If you run duplicate job names, you will probably hit resource contention. Everyone wanting the same dataset, for example.
If you specify DUPL_JOB=NODELAY, jobs with the same job name may run concurrently with adverse effects. Make certain that this serialization mechanism is not being used in your environment before changing this parameter.
Lizette
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:29 AM
Subject: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same
time on JES2?
Just asking if there is a way.
--
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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Paul Gilmartin
2017-09-14 16:52:41 UTC
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Post by Steve Beaver
You're talking it's about a change that is possible but it would be such a shock to people from what they know he's probably going to get fired for that one
I wonder if Ed Jaffe knows of anyone who got fired?

It feels as if Steve is rationalizing a MISCONCEPTION.

I wonder how an ISV's removing the restriction (or not doing so) plays with
customer emulation testing? (New options exponentially increase the burden
of such testing.)

I wonder how all this plays with the SUBMIT command and 8-character TSO IDs?
Post by Steve Beaver
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Beaver
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 10:23 AM
The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.
-- gil

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Ed Jaffe
2017-09-14 19:18:44 UTC
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Post by Paul Gilmartin
Post by Steve Beaver
You're talking it's about a change that is possible but it would be such a shock to people from what they know he's probably going to get fired for that one
I wonder if Ed Jaffe knows of anyone who got fired?
Haha! None that I know of...

[snip]
Post by Paul Gilmartin
I wonder how all this plays with the SUBMIT command and 8-character TSO IDs?
With 8-character userids,  no character is appended the the userid when
submitting JCL without a proper job card. Therefore, all such jobs will
run with the same job name whereas previously they might have all been
different.

Of course, that's not a problem for those of us already using
DUPL_JOB=NODELAY (JES2) or DUPJOBNM=YES (JES3) which we have done for
over eleven years. ;-)
--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-09-14 18:53:51 UTC
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Depending on the one-jobname restriction was indeed a 'convenient' method of serialization--but a method fraught with peril. Along with the one-jobname restriction a shop would also need to run with only one internal reader because if more than one, it's unpredictable which of two like-named jobs would get initiated first. So one at a time, yes, but out of order. Otherwise the whole system was hampered by a single threaded entry for all jobs regardless of name.

One-jobname was always a poor man's solution to a complex problem. With even a modestly sophisticated job scheduling system, serialization was achieved far more capably.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 9:54 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
Post by Steve Beaver
You're talking it's about a change that is possible but it would be
such a shock to people from what they know he's probably going to get
fired for that one
I wonder if Ed Jaffe knows of anyone who got fired?

It feels as if Steve is rationalizing a MISCONCEPTION.

I wonder how an ISV's removing the restriction (or not doing so) plays with customer emulation testing? (New options exponentially increase the burden of such testing.)

I wonder how all this plays with the SUBMIT command and 8-character TSO IDs?
Post by Steve Beaver
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Beaver
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 10:23 AM
The SYSTEM will NEVER allow you to run 2 or more batch jobs with the same name. That lock/prohibition has been There since JES was written. It been a convenient way to single thread multiple jobs with the same name.
-- gil


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Elardus Engelbrecht
2017-09-15 10:01:25 UTC
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Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
Depending on the one-jobname restriction was indeed a 'convenient' method of serialization--but a method fraught with peril.
Yaaa, tell me. ;-)
Post by Jesse 1 Robinson
One-jobname was always a poor man's solution to a complex problem. With even a modestly sophisticated job scheduling system, serialization was achieved far more capably.
Very true. Use Automation Software to schedule jobs based on Return Code (from SYSLOG or from jobs themselves) and success/failure of previous jobs ran on same or other LPARs. Use the Automation Software handling of 'incoming' and 'outgoing' condition codes.

With this setup there is not a problem with same or different jobnames and the order in which they are running.

One example: every day we run SMF Dump, Automation Software collects the results of those SMF jobs and pass it on as conditions to release other jobs which post process SMF data. The jobnames can be the same or not, it does not matter.

Before we got Automation Software, it was a real PITA to ensure jobs with the same names ran in the right sequence. The Operators sometimes released the wrong job, surely all h*ll broke loose when the angry client had to restore their data.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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David G. Yeager
2017-09-15 16:25:40 UTC
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If there is one thing I've learned from following these threads is that every shop is different. If we ran (could afford) Thru-Put manager , we wouldn't rely on single threading same name jobs, but we do it , not for order , so much as to limit "thruput", because we need a poor man's solution being poor men.

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Tom Marchant
2017-09-15 18:09:54 UTC
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Post by David G. Yeager
If there is one thing I've learned from following these threads is
that every shop is different. If we ran (could afford) Thru-Put
manager , we wouldn't rely on single threading same name jobs,
but we do it , not for order , so much as to limit "thruput",
because we need a poor man's solution being poor men.
Have you considered WLM managed Initiators?
--
Tom Marchant

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Jesse 1 Robinson
2017-09-15 19:12:23 UTC
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I do sympathize with shops that cannot afford a highfalutin job scheduling package. I've heard of fairly cheap alternatives although I have no recommendations. WLM should help with managing batch load.

The most promising new mechanism is the one (being) built into JES2 itself. It's designed to handle the serialization function--even fairly complex relationships--not just overall system load. You have to get current to implement it, but once there the price is attractive. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
***@sce.com


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 11:11 AM
To: IBM-***@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same time on JES2?
Post by David G. Yeager
If there is one thing I've learned from following these threads is
that every shop is different. If we ran (could afford) Thru-Put
manager , we wouldn't rely on single threading same name jobs, but we
do it , not for order , so much as to limit "thruput", because we need
a poor man's solution being poor men.
Have you considered WLM managed Initiators?

--
Tom Marchant


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Lizette Koehler
2017-09-15 19:36:08 UTC
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I think that JES2 z/OS V2.2 is starting to include some basic job scheduling functions.

Configuring and activating job groups

There is a new JES2 initialization statement and command, GRPDEF, that controls job group processing. Keywords on GRPDEF control the number of data areas available for group processing and the number of jobs that can run concurrently. Data for job groups is stored in a data area called a ZJC. The number of data areas needed to represent a group is dictated by the complexity of the group. One data area is needed for the group, one for each job in the group, and one for each dependency. The 4 job group described earlier would require 1 ZJC for the group, 4 for jobs in the group, and 4 for each of the dependencies, for a total of 9 data areas.

The number of ZJCs (ZJCNUM=) is defaulted to 1000, allowing limited usage of the function. The value can be configured from 6 (only useful for basic testing) to 500,000.

The other configuration keyword on GRPDEF is the number of concurrent jobs that can be configured in a single job group. This is the CONCURRENT_MAX= keyword. By default, the limit is set to zero, disabling the function. To allow users to use concurrent execution, this needs to be configured to a higher value. Valid range is 0 to 200.

All the functions of job groups are only available when JES2 is in the z22 $ACTIVATE mode. The current $ACTIVATE mode can be displayed using the $D ACTIVATE command. The command also list any reasons why you cannot activate to z22, if you are in z11 mode. There is also a health check that reports if you are not in z22 mode and what is needed to activate to z22 mode. In general, all members must be running z/OS 2.2 or later. SPOOLDEF CYL_MANAGED=ALLOWED must be set, and the checkpoint data sets have to be large enough to hold the larger data areas.

Doing a $ACTIVATE to z22 mode also enables a number of other functions in JES2 2.2, such as increased limits for checkpoint data, dynamic changes to the checkpoint size, and a large cache for spool space allocations.

JES2 can be retroactivated to z11 mode by the $ACTIVATE command, but to do this, there can be no job groups defined in the system

Lizette
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at the same
time on JES2?
I do sympathize with shops that cannot afford a highfalutin job scheduling
package. I've heard of fairly cheap alternatives although I have no
recommendations. WLM should help with managing batch load.
The most promising new mechanism is the one (being) built into JES2 itself.
It's designed to handle the serialization function--even fairly complex
relationships--not just overall system load. You have to get current to
implement it, but once there the price is attractive. ;-)
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 11:11 AM
Subject: (External):Re: Can you run multiple jobs with the same job name at
the same time on JES2?
Post by David G. Yeager
If there is one thing I've learned from following these threads is
that every shop is different. If we ran (could afford) Thru-Put
manager , we wouldn't rely on single threading same name jobs, but we
do it , not for order , so much as to limit "thruput", because we need
a poor man's solution being poor men.
Have you considered WLM managed Initiators?
--
Tom Marchant
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f***@gmail.com
2018-05-03 23:40:52 UTC
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Post by Mark Regan
Just asking if there is a way.
-- I have a situation where multiple jobs (same name) are run every 15 minutes. It one fails with a rc 12, the next schedule one runs anyway. I thought that a duplicate jobname couldn't run if another one was down.
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
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